20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

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aporia
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Re: 20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

Post by aporia » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:30 am

yeah, re: that non-transparent flanging I think you're supposed to "set-and-forget" the crossover and then build on the discrete high | low chains. So, modulation and reverbs on the highs, corpus sub-bass on the lows, etc.
BTW, I wouldn't automate the crossover point in that rack and expect musical results... there's probably some delay compensation happening when live moves the EQs while summing the inverted signal in the 'highs' rack... maybe that explains the flanging you're hearing? do you only hear it when moving the crossover point?

you could test this by bouncing out the audio and comparing before and after copies by zooming in to see if they are out of phase...

But like Josh said, this is intended for a set-it-and-forget-it hi/low split.
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braduro
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Re: 20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

Post by braduro » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:35 pm

YES!!!
I'm always thrilled when the Tips and Tricks section actually has a tip or trick. This one has 20, practically in every permutation of things I haven't thought to do.

1. unlinked clip envelopes for synthesis.
I sensed that the arrangement volume lane could have a full ramp up over the course of the clip enveloped sound in order to have the proportion of the chopping fill in over a build-up. Think that would be effective? In your example, you are using a pitch rise.

2. putting 3 identical LFOs in one rack and then slightly offsetting them
Do you find that there is a performance boost to keeping LFO's contained in a rack, and on the same track as their take-over device? Or is this just a matter of practicality? I tend to use a track without output as a repository for utilities, and as such map parameters over from playing tracks. Matter of preference?

7. sidechain as external input for envelope follower
You know, this reminds me of the new dynamic eq module released in isotope ozone 6, and you beat them to it. If you know that the volume contour will only be mapped to a single other parameter (be it a macro knob or otherwise), what would make the solo side-chaining trick more effective than just putting the envelope follower plug-in inline with the source track, i.e. the drums in this case? Again, I'm also just wondering where you would see less latency and performance in a track. And you are putting the eq8 after the group in your example? It does look a heck of a lot more convenient to have the macro 1 knob right there to grab, doesn't it, so I guess in part that I'm answering my own question. Just want to make sure I understand what you mean by the second chain being "clean." If it was actually clean, there wouldn't be too many parameters to modulate, right?

8. OS level macros for repetitive keyboard presses
Which app's your favorite macro manager for OS X (yosemite)? Are you keeping this app launched in the background at all times (that would be a deal-breaker for me)? Are you assigning app-specific keyboard combinations for ableton? Tried automator and applescript, but didn't see any specific services or actions that applied ableton. Short of that, I'd lean towards something on macupdate.com or the app store so I don't need to chase after it for updates. What other repetitive tasks come to mind as a producer? I think of the
toggle warp button
make this 1.1.1
warp from here
reaches for the contextual menu when I'm tidying up an incoming track. Any others come to mind?

17. recording against a loop forever
I'm so rarely in arrangement view. Maybe I should revisit it after this decade-long hiatus! Nonetheless, what do you think would be a good control or keyboard shortcut for reaching for the Arrangement loop and getting this jam in place, if my home base is performance-ended in session mode? Maybe the job of another macro, where I take a resampled track's clip drag it to the arrangement tab onto it's concurrent point in the time line (it would be hard to place it anywhere to accurately while the transport kept moving, me thinks), and then loop an even numbered of measures starting from an even numbered measure, then press clip record on an input ready midi track. I imagine session record on signal processing with an audio track or submix could be as equally rewarding. I almost never assign the arrangement loop to a control, so some expert opinion is most welcome. Just never thought of the intended application for it until you hit me in the head with this apple!
- Create a whole bunch (8 or 16, or more) of blank midi clips, 8 or 16 bars long (however long your loop in the arrangement is)
- Set follow actions so that they trigger in sequence
- Store them in your user library
- When needed for a jam session, draf them into the track in session mode.

This way you can record into them in overdub mode and your jam session will come out sliced into convenient 16 bar sections.

When recorded, for added interest
- freeze & flatten these,
- select the lot
- follow action 'any', in legato mode, with a relatively short times.
with re:dream's add on, will the recording continue on the next clip where it left off? What if you run out of them but continue jamming-is it going to go back to the first clip in the cluster and pick up where the last one left off, or overdub what you recorded before? Might be interesting if ableton just automatically served up new clips, but you might then soon find your session to be 200 scenes long. Because I think the merit of the original trick is that you can economize what you are bringing back to arrangement mode, but you nonetheless do not need to keep track of how many passes you made, or when your performance finally ramped up for the sake of capturing symmetry and the best takes. It just keeps recording along, but you then take a cropped clip to arrangement or apply trick 18 to it (or toss the original session clip out, even. And I should really do a refresher on the difference between freeze and flatten. Freeze is sending the output to RAM or rendering all automation? and flatten is printing all effects to the recorded clip?)

18. using a muted chopping block track that you can solo to find parts
Oh I see, you are muting it AND soloing, right? Otherwise, by unsoloing it, if it was not mute, it's really only not playing the "palate" um, chopping block track if the point where you are placing the snippet clip does not overlap vertically with the chopping block track, right?

20. slice to midi + randomizer + short midi clips + skrillex (or whatever)
GENIUS!!!!
I will totally take you up with the on-the-fly challenge.
Now in your demonstration, your actual hits are coming from a loop of what appears to be less than a single quarter beat-chopped into varying sized bits. Now is the pattern of bits-note on offs in this segment-changing over the course of your play through? Because the playhead is traveling so fast, the random selection is switching so quickly, and the hits blend into each other, it's really hard to tell if the bits are varying their relation to each other and the subsequent pattern over this minute time range. What made you pick such a short loop? Have you tried changing the length of the clip loop over a single sustained note value so as to play-quantize the change of randomized slice sections? What works most profoundly to your ears? What slicing material do you find works best for this trick? Full songs? Vocals? Verse/Chorus?

aporia
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Re: 20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

Post by aporia » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:34 pm

Braduro, I am so glad to have another engaged viewer!

I will have to get back to you on all these as I'm on my day job at the moment.
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re:dream
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Re: 20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

Post by re:dream » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:03 pm

braduro wrote: with re:dream's add on, will the recording continue on the next clip where it left off? What if you run out of them but continue jamming-is it going to go back to the first clip in the cluster and pick up where the last one left off, or overdub what you recorded before?
It overdubs

I keep a rack of 8 such empty clips in my user library. Drag them out when needed. If I feel extra inspired, I drag out two lots, or three.

aporia
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Re: 20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

Post by aporia » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:46 pm

@Braduro: did my best to answer your questions; really appreciate the time you spent on my video! Sounds like I should do more!
braduro wrote: 1. unlinked clip envelopes for synthesis.
I sensed that the arrangement volume lane could have a full ramp up over the course of the clip enveloped sound in order to have the proportion of the chopping fill in over a build-up. Think that would be effective? In your example, you are using a pitch rise.
This tip is basically using ableton's warp modes AS a granular synthesizer for your clip where the different clip envelopes are your effects/granules and the warp modes are your algorithms; I was showing volume, because its easy to follow, but in my music I tend to use short, looped pitched envelopes ALOT! In this track, for instance: https://soundcloud.com/welcome-to-maschine/earth

Once you get a weird shape that sounds cool, try another warp mode... I often work with stuff in complex mode and then find that I like the way beats mode interpolates things better. Honestly there is no right or wrong application.
braduro wrote: 2. putting 3 identical LFOs in one rack and then slightly offsetting them
Do you find that there is a performance boost to keeping LFO's contained in a rack, and on the same track as their take-over device? Or is this just a matter of practicality? I tend to use a track without output as a repository for utilities, and as such map parameters over from playing tracks. Matter of preference?
There is no difference of having them in a rack VS putting them in-line with respect to performance (I suppose it makes it easier to turn all three off at the same time when they are in one rack :-) ... I just like to be able to grab 3 at a time in a preset rack. If anything, the 3 in one-rack loads faster than dragging 3 in separately.
braduro wrote: 7. sidechain as external input for envelope follower
You know, this reminds me of the new dynamic eq module released in isotope ozone 6, and you beat them to it. If you know that the volume contour will only be mapped to a single other parameter (be it a macro knob or otherwise), what would make the solo side-chaining trick more effective than just putting the envelope follower plug-in inline with the source track, i.e. the drums in this case? Again, I'm also just wondering where you would see less latency and performance in a track. And you are putting the eq8 after the group in your example? It does look a heck of a lot more convenient to have the macro 1 knob right there to grab, doesn't it, so I guess in part that I'm answering my own question. Just want to make sure I understand what you mean by the second chain being "clean." If it was actually clean, there wouldn't be too many parameters to modulate, right?
This want meant to demonstrate more the power of using an envelope follower + sidechain input (maybe I should do a separate tutorial on dynamic EQ), but I do not find there's any latency on the Max4Live device (of course there's an envelope built into that device which makes it easy to tweak if you notice latency)... if you ARE using it this type of rack for a dynamic EQ - it doesn't matter where you put the EQ (inside outside the rack). You can 'map' any max for live device to any parameter... And when I labeled that second rack 'CLEAN' it was only to distinguish from the 'mod SRC' rack with the sidechain input + envelope follower... you do still need that to allow the original signal to come through... whether its truly clean or not is up to you... just remember to mute your rack with the envelope follower on it so that it's informing the modulation in the envelope follower and NOT going out the master... does that make sense?
braduro wrote: 8. OS level macros for repetitive keyboard presses
Which app's your favorite macro manager for OS X (yosemite)?
http://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/ .... it does run in the background, but with no noticeable performance hit.
braduro wrote: Any other [shortcuts] come to mind?
tons... I have loads of these shortcuts implemented.. maybe I'll do a separate tutorial on just that...
braduro wrote: 17. recording against a loop forever
I'm so rarely in arrangement view. Maybe I should revisit it after this decade-long hiatus! Nonetheless, what do you think would be a good control or keyboard shortcut for reaching for the Arrangement loop and getting this jam in place, if my home base is performance-ended in session mode? Maybe the job of another macro, where I take a resampled track's clip drag it to the arrangement tab onto it's concurrent point in the time line (it would be hard to place it anywhere to accurately while the transport kept moving, me thinks), and then loop an even numbered of measures starting from an even numbered measure, then press clip record on an input ready midi track. I imagine session record on signal processing with an audio track or submix could be as equally rewarding. I almost never assign the arrangement loop to a control, so some expert opinion is most welcome. Just never thought of the intended application for it until you hit me in the head with this apple!
If 'TAB' isn't the shortcut you're looking for, I don't think I can help here... or maybe I'm misunderstanding your question... :?
braduro wrote: 18. using a muted chopping block track that you can solo to find parts
Oh I see, you are muting it AND soloing, right? Otherwise, by unsoloing it, if it was not mute, it's really only not playing the "palate" um, chopping block track if the point where you are placing the snippet clip does not overlap vertically with the chopping block track, right?
Muting AND soloing. That's right... so you have a track called chopping block, which is muted. When you solo it, you hear only that track, and you can grab your parts.... when you unsolo it, its muted so you don't hear it with the rest of your arrangement. It's pretty simple actually, and I believe this would still work for you if you're in session mode. It doesn't matter if there's vertical overlay as long as the 'chopping block' track is muted.
braduro wrote: 20. slice to midi + randomizer + short midi clips + skrillex (or whatever)
GENIUS!!!!
I will totally take you up with the on-the-fly challenge.
Now in your demonstration, your actual hits are coming from a loop of what appears to be less than a single quarter beat-chopped into varying sized bits. Now is the pattern of bits-note on offs in this segment-changing over the course of your play through? Because the playhead is traveling so fast, the random selection is switching so quickly, and the hits blend into each other, it's really hard to tell if the bits are varying their relation to each other and the subsequent pattern over this minute time range. What made you pick such a short loop? Have you tried changing the length of the clip loop over a single sustained note value so as to play-quantize the change of randomized slice sections? What works most profoundly to your ears? What slicing material do you find works best for this trick? Full songs? Vocals? Verse/Chorus?
I'm going refer you to a more in-depth video I did on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX47Pvu ... qK&index=5

full disclosure: it's not as 'tight' as my '20 tips' video, but it goes into more depth with this technique and shows a bunch of different applications.

I tend pick short loops because that's all my brain can handle (I also find if your working with a randomizer, shorter ends up being better)... like all this stuff, you should explore this technique with your own ideas, but judging from the specificity and thoroughness of your last post, I'm sure you already are :mrgreen:



Cheers, braduro!

[edit, grammar cleanup... first post was atrocious]
I destroy music to make music.
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braduro
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Re: 20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

Post by braduro » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:04 pm

That does the trick, aporia!
Had to let the tricks stew and simmer, but looking over your answers it definitely appears to tidy things in my head.

My first question had to do with relative values, as automation is always in proportion to the current value when using ableton. So setting longer automation ramps on the arrangement level while using your granular synthesizer method on the same or complementary parameter might be fun pursuing.

My arrangement loop button assignment was sort of a dumb question. It's just something I don't typically hit, so I was trying to think of a performance situation where I'd want to reach for it.
A likely scenario could be:
  • Resample a current loop:
    Drag it to the arrangement:
    Then hit arrangement loop for trick 17.
Just thinking out-loud really as to how realistic I would "perform" this idea

As for the last trick, 20, I definitely have some things to share, but I'll talk on that topic when I'm in my element.
Cheers to you!

aporia
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Re: 20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

Post by aporia » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:04 am

Did 2 more videos; 10 tips each, all around using session mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfUgVInYE-g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUlAHCertQc


Going to do 20 more tips specifically on arrange mode next!
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maze23a
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Re: 20 Workflow Tips in Live 9

Post by maze23a » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:01 pm

Really looking forward for your arrange Tips.
Your stuff is awesome. Keep it up!

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