Still a newbie after 2 years

Share your favorite Ableton Live tips, tricks, and techniques.
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TheMitch1973
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:12 pm

Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by TheMitch1973 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:24 pm

Hi,
I need some advice or pointed into the right direction please. I started playing guitar again a few years ago and took the ableton plunge on windows. I really have no idea how to use it properly. I have been using it for playing seperate tracks for songs then 2nd guessing levels and all sorts.

For example I will record bass track, lead and rhthym and maybe a vocal. Then play about with it trying to get it to sound as clear as possible. It might sound ok to me and none of the levels are in the red but the problem appears to be my mixes are all mixed up wrongly in the wrong places/locations/frequencys.

Where do i go from here guys and girls? Is there such things as a song template where i can record in each track into it like preset level tracks in the template or does anybody have 1 they can send me as an example for me to understand what is a correct mix. Its no use me doing a song and it sounding fine to me then i send it to the local radio station and he tells me that its all over the place in terms of the actual mastered mix. Im just frustrated at the moment. I dont even understand how to randomley enable clip loops in order for me not to have to play a whole chord progression all the way thru the song. I guess thats what studios and sound engineers are there for but a basic insight of a standard mix would be such a relief if somebody could help me please.

wearemindflux
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by wearemindflux » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:23 pm

Hi, if you are looking to get a good foundation for your knowledge I would suggest doing a course or getting some tuition
Grab your free techno samples here>>>http://bit.ly/2YAS8so

TheMitch1973
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:12 pm

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by TheMitch1973 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:44 pm

Im looking to be able to do a decent recording of my songs myself. Time and money does not enable me to go as deep as to go into studying it for qualifications unfortunately but I would love to do something like that. I simply am just looking for some guidance here in the basics and the possibility of a template thats all.

H20nly
Posts: 16057
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by H20nly » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:09 pm

you can set up everything just the way you would like with levels, effects, MIDI instruments and any other settings/devices you know you will apply/use each time you record. get everything tuned just right and then Save As Template Defaults. moving forward, every time you open Live you will be ready to get started from the same point.

if you are experimenting, or adding single loop type highlights/sounds, then using Session view is probably good for you.

if you plan on playing your guitar or singing your song through the whole recording in one take, you might be better off recording in a more traditional linear view. Click Tab to setup and record everything in Arrange view instead.

i usually record bass, guitar, and vocals with Live and use MIDI drums, keys, etc. I have no problem sharing any of my experiences with you... Forgive me if anything I've said here is something you already know, it's hard to get a sense for where you are at from what has been posted so far.

it may be helpful is you make a list of specific issue you are having.
also, check out this tips and tricks thread that has some real gems in it... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=183667

gbert
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:02 am

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by gbert » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:17 pm

I recommend going to ask.video and signing up for a 1 month subscription. Cancel it before the month renews. I also don’t have time to dive deep into a course, and found their videos to be a quick way to find guidance. It may not be possible to have a template that gives you good sound quality in the final mix. Sounds like you are seeking knowledge on the art/science of mixing. It needs to be learned, and looking at some videos or even books is one way to get there. I think there’s too much to it to answer in a post, but something like a quick video can cover it. Most of the videos are 3-5 minutes and are grouped together as part of a topic. For example, see the Mixing & Mastering Toolbox video set, which uses Ableton for it.

For that site, check out the phone app. You can search for video topics, and can stream them. Listen to some while on your way to work/school. For many of them you can learn just by listening even if you aren’t able to look at the video at the time.

Seems like you are familiar with the mechanics of using Live given you have done some recordings. But the videos there on how to manipulate audio/midi and Getting Started will probably teach a few new things. I’ve learned a ton and can’t recommend it enough for $25 or whatever it goes for.

I agree with the recommendation to use Arrange View. Given what you are trying to do, just stick with Arrange View. You can use the Duplicate function (Cmd-D on Mac) to repeat clips and not have to play the chord progression for the entire song.

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by jestermgee » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:52 pm

Lots of good advice there. This is one reason I am glad I started my production journey in the 90s when things were a little easier to get a handle on, mainly because the choice and options were far less and you could focus more on one thing at a time...

That is probably the only suggestion I can make. Forget about "learning everything" because it's almost impossible to learn it all. There are many aspects that you need to get a handle on such as:

- Recording audio into Live
- working with loops and warping
- Recording and working with MIDI
- Automation
- Mixing
- Mastering
- Creating chains and groups of devices

On top of that there are the specifics of how every device works, how they can be used and when, why someone needs 276 compressors and 66 reverb plugins etc.

Finally there is all the music technical stuff actually to do with writing and structure etc.

Why someone wants to do all that work these days is still amazing. But pick one area you want to get better at and start there. As mentioned, look for a small cost online course to keep you focused. I wanted to know more about mixing last year (not mastering, that is another level i'm not fully prepared for myself after 20 years) So I picked up a mixing/mastering course for $50 at the time and it used mostly Ableton Live and a handful of plugins which was enough for me to find some areas where I could improve, especially on using the EQ8 to better effect with the m/s settings. Stuff I had never discovered myself.

Your learning capabilities can only be as good as the one teaching you. If you are your own teacher then that makes things a bit hard to learn the things your teacher does not understand themselves.

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login
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by login » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:58 pm

TheMitch1973 wrote:Im looking to be able to do a decent recording of my songs myself. Time and money does not enable me to go as deep as to go into studying it for qualifications unfortunately but I would love to do something like that. I simply am just looking for some guidance here in the basics and the possibility of a template thats all.
Apart from many tutorials in youtube there are sites with video lessons which are quite cheap, 15 or 20 USD a month and you can watch all the tutorials you can, so in many cases one or towo months are more than enough.

For mixing tutorials check Groove3 and ask.audio, both sites have dedicated mixing tutorials that quite in depth starting with the basic concepts up to individual effects and advanced techniques.

Mixing is probably the deepest skill in production, there is space there for technical and creative decisions as well. So expect to spend some good time practicing before getting to a good sounding mix.

Artcutech
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:56 pm

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by Artcutech » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:26 pm

In Abletons help menu there’s some good tutorials, that should help with some of the run around

I know what you mean when you say it sounds ok haha the digital audio work station takes a few more steps to get things sounding really great if your just recording into your interface, unless you have external preamps or gear that’s already giving your sound the color is so desperately needs. Ableton has some really good stock audio effect/plug-ins, although I only use a couple maybe time to time anymore, one of your tracks chain depending on the instrument could look like this, GENTALLY saturating everything really helps(saturator), then some eq cuts(eq8), possibly a compressor after(compressor), then some boosts and maybe cuts again(another eq8)maybe some chorus on your guitar if that’s the track your on(chorus) slap a reverb on there and tweak it(reverb) there are help videos for all of these and any other plug-in out there on you tube, believe me you will or will not depending on your desire be learning for the rest of your life like the rest of us

doghouse
Posts: 1450
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by doghouse » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:01 pm

Mitch,

Mixing is no different in Live than doing it in any other DAW or even doing it with analog hardware. Google for tutorials on recording and mixing of guitar/vocal based music. Tutorials on mixing electronic music will be less helpful.

Here's a few I found in 30 seconds:

https://reverb.com/news/home-recording- ... ix-guitars At the end of this one is a list of links to other related articles at Reverb.com

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/an ... audio-5930

https://www.musicianonamission.com/make ... n-the-mix/

If you can post a link to a Live Set we could download (Dropbox?) and look at we can give more specific suggestions.

TheMitch1973
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:12 pm

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by TheMitch1973 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:43 pm

Well a year later I find this post at last lol. After I wrote here asking about stuff I lost the link, login etc etc etc. Thank you so much all you guys for your advice and kind words. A year later I got busier at work and its the usual juggling act to fit everything into the one day. I havent had time for the last month or 2 to even pick up an instrument and learn/record stuff. The only positive about that is I usually get re-knewed inspiration for diffirent stuff after a break from playing/recording. Im still no further forward with the mastering side of things. I bought an all in one amp that take guitar input with wireless mic internally mixed with the guitar input. I have got annoyed playing studio mode and trying to get more comfortable with my own playing and singing and remembering lyrics. Using a DAW gets really too easy then when u go to actually play the song live its like. WOWWWW. Im going to look at them online courses you guys suggested. There must be like tutors aswell which can skype surely and advise and describe to help me with this journey of getting the perfect mix for my songs.

TLW
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:37 am

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by TLW » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:06 pm

A couple of thoughts if I may.

The chances of creating a good mix are much greater if you have at least a reasonable monitoring system. It doesn’t have to be expensive, a set of e.g. KRK Rokits or Yamaha speakers can take you a long way. If you have to mix using headphones then invest in something like Waves NX or Sonarworks and get a set of phones the software supports, it helps headphone mixing translate to other systems better and much less wearing on the ears.

It’s also worth getting some more comprehensive metering plugins than the ones which come with Live. I find Melda Production’s one very useful because it can be used to show multiple tracks at the same time which helps with working which tracks are fighting for the same frequency zone. A set of virtual VU meters can be useful as well - Klanghelm.com’s VUMT is good, as is the Waves VU plugin.
Live 10 Suite, 2020 27" iMac, 3.6 GHz i9, MacOS Catalina, RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

TheMitch1973
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:12 pm

Re: Still a newbie after 3 years

Post by TheMitch1973 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:40 pm

Im back again. Ive progressed to being able to duplicate chord progressions (saves so much time), saving certain setups as a default for next time and learnt a bit more about adjusting levels in each track with the tools in ableton. IM still making rubbish mixes tho. I record a bass track, rhthym track, lead track, drums and some vocals. Still needing to spend more time on how to get a decent sounding vocal on my songs but that should come with once i get my tracks mastered all in the right place at the right levels, right ?

Q1:
OK here is an important question from me. I have the focusrite 2i2. So 2 inputs. I have guitar in input 2 and mic in input 1. The input 1 is cleaner than input 2 isnt it?

Q2:
If i record all my guitar tracks into input 2 as usual. So ive got bass, rhthym and lead tracks done. Are they in any way messed up when mixing because from the same input or is that up to me to seperate each track accordingly adjusting levels and mastering ?

Q3:
I cant find a decent rock song template. Like say a song like ac/dc rock n roll singer ( just an example ) for the kind of songs im puting together. Everything i find is all electronic dance music templates. No use to me. Anybody got anything I could use ?

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Still a newbie after 3 years

Post by jestermgee » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:18 pm

Q1:
OK here is an important question from me. I have the focusrite 2i2. So 2 inputs. I have guitar in input 2 and mic in input 1. The input 1 is cleaner than input 2 isnt it?
Should both be the same so they can also be used as a stereo pair, wouldn't think one would be specifically "cleaner" on any interface, maybe one has a "high-z" input for direct connect of instrument pickups but I quickly note that both inputs have a switchable Inst/Mic input so both are equal.
Q2:
If i record all my guitar tracks into input 2 as usual. So ive got bass, rhthym and lead tracks done. Are they in any way messed up when mixing because from the same input or is that up to me to seperate each track accordingly adjusting levels and mastering ?
Don't understand this question. Are you recording all these things into the input at the same time or onto separate tracks one at a time? If all your recordings are on separate tracks then it will come down to how you mix after the fact as long as you adjusted your input levels correctly when recording each part.
Q3:
I cant find a decent rock song template. Like say a song like ac/dc rock n roll singer ( just an example ) for the kind of songs im puting together. Everything i find is all electronic dance music templates. No use to me. Anybody got anything I could use ?
[/quote]

I doubt you will find a template that would be suitable for your needs... This would be something you would have to build yourself based on the tracks you will have, the effects you need (and have available to you), the way you will want to work etc. I have templates for all kinds of music and tend to make templates when I get bored but I don't play a physical instrument myself, I do everything virtually so that wouldn't suit your workflow. Also, probably wouldn't count on the effects all being in your library either. Spend a little time designing something you can count on and don't be put off by the fact it could take weeks to fine tune to the point you are happy to use it as a starting point every time.

TheMitch1973
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:12 pm

Re: Still a newbie after 2 years

Post by TheMitch1973 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:21 pm

Another few months along the way and another update. Ive been using saturator and mastering things a bit better. The girlfriend got me acid pro and a usb condensor mic for my xmas wanting to help me with my decent vocals quest. The usb mic no use to me tho with the 2i2, I downloaded the acid pro trial and think its a major step down from ableton. its so cluttered not very wysiwyg at all and there was very little plugins of any use within it. I didnt want to waste the serial or it would have been non returnable. So the g/f is returning both and getting the xlr version mic insidead of the usb one. I managed to get a great price on an SM58 mic as the industry swears by them since they were in production. From what i could gather from an initial test with it is the low impedance they have so less backround noise/feedback. I will still have to do the groundwork with the software etc to get a decent vocal. What i did find was further progress was running a few vocal tracks instead of just the 1. any thoughts on any of this or what i can change or do better. I will contirnue to pull my hair out with these things although i DO enjoy everything about music.

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