Struggles we are going through

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Paul Prayton
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Struggles we are going through

Post by Paul Prayton » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:37 pm

Spending a lot of time trying to fix your productions, mixes or masters can make you feel like you are the only one having these issues. You may end up feeling isolated, even down, but it doesn’t have to be that way.

I wanted to create a thread where you could share the struggles you are going through so you and other people could see that you are not alone in that boat.

Feel free to share what’s holding you back from finishing that song :wink:

[jur]
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by [jur] » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:02 pm

The less constraints/limitations I have, the less I finish things.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:18 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:02 pm
The less constraints/limitations I have, the less I finish things.

One way I can completely relate is the search for an MPE native DAW. Live and my dinosaur of choice DP10 both do not natively support MPE. There are OK workarounds in both, but the process saps the fun out of MPE instruments, for me anyway. So I ended up buying Logic, Reaper and Bitwig.

Logic at first, but I got sidetracked looking deeply into Reaper. Bitwig later on, since it's closer to Live than those two. The one problem I have is seeing all the great things about a DAW once I spend time with it, but knowing the limitations compared to other DAWs as well.

So before I would split my time between two DAWs that arguably complimented each other, now I'm looking at 5, and I still haven't come to any conclusions.

Currently testing Logic, trying to not hate it's MIDI input by channel only limitation and work with it. I can't see really using Logic live though, even with Clips and the Logic remote app. I did that before and it was merely OK...

In terms of Live, I'm at another crossroads, it's too CPU intensive these days for my computers, it's not optimized well for old 12 core Mac Pros so every other DAW I use gets almost twice as many plug ins on that machine, and my laptop is old as the hills. Apple silicon is right around the corner so I'm not interested in upgrading until the dust starts to settle.

Anyway, yeah indecision is a b*tch! :x

pottering
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by pottering » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:07 pm

Funny, aren't MPE controllers supposed to be "expressive"?

I mean, aren't you supposed to get the "expressiveness" from the controller itself, not editing the MIDI data in a DAW later?

Live can record (and edit) MPE played real-time from a controller just fine, especially with MPE_Util, just an extra step of renaming one track (https://github.com/juhot/MPE_Util).

Going by the constant complaints from MPE users about Live, it really sounds to me that people are NOT getting expressive performances from those MPE controllers, if they need editing MPE later in the DAW that much.

Maybe people get MPE controllers for some other usage I can't think of, but the marketing for those controllers sells real-time expressiveness, like a "real instrument", not some weird techy parameter manipulation.

Machinesworking
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:04 pm

pottering wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:07 pm
Maybe people get MPE controllers for some other usage I can't think of, but the marketing for those controllers sells real-time expressiveness, like a "real instrument", not some weird techy parameter manipulation.
Nothing is an either/or situation involving art. I like being able to edit my freeform playing. In the end of the day how different is it than quantizing any input you do from a regular MIDI keyboard? As I said, I lose interest in using MPE when it's 16 tracks with a script VS a single track in MPE capable DAWs, even with DP and its group tracks settings it's still a PITA IMO.

[jur]
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by [jur] » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:27 pm

Let's try to not get too much of topic please, this could be an interesting thread.
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Tarekith
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by Tarekith » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:00 am

I have had a lot more time lately to actually make music thanks to Covid ending all my travel plans, but I'm just not in a creative space at the moment. Makes me annoyed and frustrated that fate and the randomness of writer's block has conspired to not make these two things align. Like I'm wasting time or not making the best use of an unfortunate opportunity.

:x

Paul Prayton
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by Paul Prayton » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:58 pm

[jur] wrote: The less constraints/limitations I have, the less I finish things.
Constraints help finishing songs but don’t you feel like some could have been more than they were had you gone off the rails?
Like sometimes I set some rules but the song keeps telling me it wants to be something else (although as soon as I decide to go off track, I get totally lost and it seems like what I was hearing before was better, but I can’t put it down).
 
 
Tarekith wrote: I have had a lot more time lately to actually make music thanks to Covid ending all my travel plans, but I'm just not in a creative space at the moment.  Makes me annoyed and frustrated that fate and the randomness of writer's block has conspired to not make these two things align.  Like I'm wasting time or not making the best use of an unfortunate opportunity.
 
 :x
Why do you think you have writer’s block right when you have the best excuse to make music?

I had been going through the same, I was “happy” to have time away from my office to take the time to make music. Weirdly enough I am stuck too and I am watching this chance slip through my fingers

Paul Prayton
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by Paul Prayton » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:03 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:18 pm
[jur] wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:02 pm
The less constraints/limitations I have, the less I finish things.

One way I can completely relate is the search for an MPE native DAW. Live and my dinosaur of choice DP10 both do not natively support MPE. There are OK workarounds in both, but the process saps the fun out of MPE instruments, for me anyway. So I ended up buying Logic, Reaper and Bitwig.

Logic at first, but I got sidetracked looking deeply into Reaper. Bitwig later on, since it's closer to Live than those two. The one problem I have is seeing all the great things about a DAW once I spend time with it, but knowing the limitations compared to other DAWs as well.

So before I would split my time between two DAWs that arguably complimented each other, now I'm looking at 5, and I still haven't come to any conclusions.

Currently testing Logic, trying to not hate it's MIDI input by channel only limitation and work with it. I can't see really using Logic live though, even with Clips and the Logic remote app. I did that before and it was merely OK...

In terms of Live, I'm at another crossroads, it's too CPU intensive these days for my computers, it's not optimized well for old 12 core Mac Pros so every other DAW I use gets almost twice as many plug ins on that machine, and my laptop is old as the hills. Apple silicon is right around the corner so I'm not interested in upgrading until the dust starts to settle.

Anyway, yeah indecision is a b*tch! :x
I have recently bought Studio One 5 which supports MPE, but I’m kinda sad it doesn’t have a Live element to it. Having to switch between different workflows is a pain, so I force myself to stick with one DAW throughout the production process of one song

Unfortunately there is no DAW to rule them all :(

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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:06 am

Tarekith wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:00 am
I have had a lot more time lately to actually make music thanks to Covid ending all my travel plans, but I'm just not in a creative space at the moment. Makes me annoyed and frustrated that fate and the randomness of writer's block has conspired to not make these two things align. Like I'm wasting time or not making the best use of an unfortunate opportunity.

:x
You're a talented and well organized person from what I know, so take this with a grain of salt. (or really, I'm probably parroting what you already know)
My pattern is stretches of low ability to focus on actually writing a song, then bursts of creativity. My strategy, if I can retain some discipline, is to concentrate on either "janitor or school work". Basically to sharpen my knowledge with Ableton or some plug in I'm enjoying; look into theory a bit to stretch my limited knowledge there; and/or do some janitor work on my libraries and song files, which are completely out of hand over the years.

This almost always works, I'm just getting out of a slump, but during that slump I spent time looking at MPE, which MPE devices I liked (Linnstrument by a mile), and what to do about my increasing collection of drum plug ins and libraries. Maschine, and the MPC are both packed, I'm down to Push as the drum controller, with Beatstep Pro for the 808 style programming etc.

So it backs me right into creative mode after a while, because I suppose I get excited to apply what I learned or to mess up what I organized! :x

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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by Tarekith » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:59 am

Thanks!

TLW
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Re: Struggles we are going through

Post by TLW » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:02 pm
The less constraints/limitations I have, the less I finish things.
I’m the same. Which is one reason I prefer working with hardware synths and instruments rather than just software. Once the hardware has been recorded as audio I usually remove all the MIDI tracks and commit to working with just the audio. A similar way of working to studios in the days of multi-track tape in many respects.

I do this because (a) I like and generally prefer hardware synths both for their sound and human/instrument interfaces, and (b) if I use software synths I keep getting the urge to edit the MIDI or the sound to the point I never get beyond endlessly making alterations. Forcing myself to stop recording and use just what I’ve already recorded gets me out of that trap.
Live 10 Suite, 2020 27" iMac, 3.6 GHz i9, MacOS Catalina, RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

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