"Magic Send" - fades out track while fading in FX!

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nolus
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"Magic Send" - fades out track while fading in FX!

Post by nolus » Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:07 pm

Try this:

Put a Utility set to phase invert on the "A Return" track.
Put an effect (100% wet) on "B Return" (try a ping pong delay to get a feel for it)
On the A Return track turn up Send B to maximum and set the gain to 0db
Make sure that both sends are set to post

You can now use send A on any track to xfade between 100% dry and 100% effect. great for dub delays where you want to drop out the original sound but still here the delayed version - for example.

Send B will bring in the effect in the normal way.

You can set up several effects in this way to create a kind of dub pallette, and spontaneously apply any combination of effects to any track (ok, this is obvious :wink: ), shifting the whole mix from 100% dry to 100% effects just by tweeaking a few sends

Arguably the 180 degree phase shift might affect the sound of the dry/wet mix with some effects, but another phase inverter placed before the effect would fix it. In practice it doesn't appear to make much of a difference with most effects.

I originally posted this idea on another thread (http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27362) under general, but thought it was worth posting here as well.

n
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

Clearscreen
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Post by Clearscreen » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:34 pm

FREAKING BRILLIANT!! i've been looking for a way to set things up so i can use certain effects as inserts, and you've solved it in the simplest manner possible! really nice work!
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Clearscreen
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Post by Clearscreen » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:59 am

this method doesn't like PDC though. not a biggie for me, but may be for some people. if you have PDC switched on, the track delay changes every time you record arm a track, meaning the phase inversion stops cancelling the original audio....
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nolus
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Post by nolus » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:39 am

mmmm, I didn't think of that. well spotted.

One thing I did notice is that if you turn both Sends A and B to max, then you get a kind of high frequency residue. Theoretically it should cancel out the input signal to the effect and you should hear nothing (I think :? ).

This implies to me that some high frequency roll off is happening on the sends (or on the main fader?) - whatever the reason, it doesn't seem right.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

Clearscreen
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Post by Clearscreen » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:16 am

i actually kind of dig that... it's like being able to turn on an instant high pass filter. your right though, it did occur to me that it shouldn't be happening. i'm not sure quite what it means, but i expect it's probably not something good in terms of what the effects or mixing/summing are doing to the signal!
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nolus
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Post by nolus » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:38 am

I tried it with just an inverter on each return, it all works as expected until you bring in the second send.... I've now convinced myself that it is caused by a time shift being applied somewhere, probably in error. it's like the sound you get from a very short single shot echo.

I think I'll post something about it on the "rendering degrades sound quality" thread, that should put the cat among the pidgeons :twisted:
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

Clearscreen
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Post by Clearscreen » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:58 am

it definitely implies somethings wrong with their summing somewhere i think. anyhoo, nice tip mate. i'll be using this one a bit i think. can't believe no one else has posted here about this yet!
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melocoton
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Post by melocoton » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:42 am

Nice! I didn't quite understand what you meant until I tried it but now I realize this is something I've wanted to do for a while. Thanks.

funk313
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Post by funk313 » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:34 am

big up!! 8)

TheAnimal
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Post by TheAnimal » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:10 pm

That's a cool idea! But what the heck is PDC? I just can't figure it out :oops:

nolus
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Post by nolus » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:24 pm

PDC = Plugin Delay Compensation.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

dpkni1
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Post by dpkni1 » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:36 pm

mad tip 8)
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Michael-SW
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Post by Michael-SW » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:28 pm

Perhaps Nolus could post a bug report in the Bugs forum? Audio summing errors sounds like something the Abletonians should know about.

nolus
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Post by nolus » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:33 pm

I did, and got a reply from Robert Henke himself.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27502

apparently it's all perfectly normal and unavoidable.
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Post by Nixon » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:05 am

nolus, in the post with robert henke you said you knew how to avoid this...can you explaine this?
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