ducking bass using compression

Saarinen · Post by **Saarinen** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:05 pm

I've been trying to duck the bassline in a track by routing the audio from my drum track (sampled loop) into my bass track to get the compressor to clamp down on my bassline whenever the kick drum hits.

It's not working. Any ideas or suggestions?

I'm trying to use the sidechain to make the compressor get activated by lower frequencies. I don't know if this is the correct use of sidechaining.

Does anyone know how to accomplish this? I know i can manually adjust envelopes to acheive the same effect, but my beat is pretty complicated and keeps changing, so it's not very pactical.

Any help would be awesome.

-S

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:11 pm

try this
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Saarinen · Post by **Saarinen** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:54 am

Yeah, i've looked at that post, but it doesn't really solve what i'm trying to do. I want the volume in one track to control the compression being applied to another. G&D's way uses an effect that you set up at quarter note intervals to coincide w/ your kick. if your kick is changing around, then this way won't work anymore.

Can the way i'm trying it even work?

Thanks for the reply...

-S

atmofunk · Post by **atmofunk** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:42 am

http://www.otiumfx.com/compadre.php

w00t!

serotoninsteve · Post by **serotoninsteve** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:20 pm

These are free:

http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slider/vst/

http://www.redshiftmedia.com/vsts/

And work great here.

Greetings

Saarinen · Post by **Saarinen** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:08 am

So...i'm guessing live's compressor can't do what i need it to, since you guys are pointing me to VST's. unfortunately, 2 of those three are PC VST's, and the other one (C3 multiband) doesn't seem to have the feature i'm looking for.

I would like to figure out a way to do it for free, but i'll pay for a VST if i have to. I just really need this feature, and any help is really appreciated.

Should i change software for mixing and mastering? I'm thinking of getting Logic Express and just rewiring Live to it. Would Logic be able to compress one track using the volume of another?

-S

serotoninsteve · Post by **serotoninsteve** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:43 am

Ups, sorry haven´t seen that you are on mac.

Greetings

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:44 am

Saarinen wrote:So...i'm guessing live's compressor can't do what i need it to, since you guys are pointing me to VST's. unfortunately, 2 of those three are PC VST's, and the other one (C3 multiband) doesn't seem to have the feature i'm looking for.

I would like to figure out a way to do it for free, but i'll pay for a VST if i have to. I just really need this feature, and any help is really appreciated.

Should i change software for mixing and mastering? I'm thinking of getting Logic Express and just rewiring Live to it. Would Logic be able to compress one track using the volume of another?

-S

you cant do sidechain compression in logic express, only logic pro

Inductive · Post by **Inductive** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:47 am

all you need to do is find a nice eq to use. look for a free vst/au whatever. tere are tons of eq's. you need to make 2 sends, or rig 2 audio tracks as bus's whichever youd like (bus it if you need to automate the compression, like turning it off for your intro). both effect tracks have all other tracks run into them. all other tracks have outputs set to sends only or whatever. not master.

Now, in the first effect track set the eq up (this is why you may need to try a few eq's) to only have like 400hz and below, everything above cut. Add your choice of compressor. This is the low band, crank the gain on the kick to push everything back, set the compressor to compensate for your new huge kick. Now set the second effect track up with another of the same eq, but this time cut everything before 400hz (you may need to jiggle the values a bit if there is a real overall boost of the overlap gain, usualy I lower the low freq value cutoff and let the high freq band take over). You can add a compressor after it if you think it sounds better. So thats how to make the lowend compressed without eating the highend.

If you want say, you kick to sound like its pushing the mix back, instead of using a sidechain compressor, which is realy not what they do best, do it hardcore style. Set up another effect track with just your kick sound as the input (easy if you used simpler, eq it as close you can if its something else, keep only the lowend either way with more eq'ing). Now, turn on pen mode, and draw some envelopes. When the kick hits, lower the second effect chan, make sure the newest, third effect chan has its level a bit lower, use a utility and set it to at least -6db to start with. Anyhow, lower the effect 2 (the highend from before) manualy when the kick hits, the third chan adds a bit more oomph over the compressed track (dont question this until after you have added like 30 effects to all the new strange tracks you have). If you think your beat is too hard to manualy compress, well... here:

http://www.buzzmusic.de/index.php?id=5& ... ongid=5918

all the beats are done in simpler, you may not like it, i promise i'll understand :)) but i did alot of envelopes fast, practice, youll learn all kinds of ways to streatch your fingers to do things realy fast.

jbible · Post by **jbible** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:53 pm

http://audiostation.blogspot.com/2005/1 ... orial.html

or

Video tutorial: How to hook up a sidechain in Ableton Live with Compadre "Beat Puncher".

http://otium.hjem.myinternet.dk/mirror/ ... echain.zip

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:38 pm

You could manually draw a volume envelope that ducks the bass everytime the kick plays.

serotoninsteve: thankx for the redshiftmedia link. They look really useful!

mr-e · Post by **mr-e** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:00 am

You could manually draw a volume envelope that ducks the bass everytime the kick plays.

using bidule you can
1) route the midi note that triggers the kick to bidule
2) convert the midi note to an inverse midi-envelope in bidule (value goes down in attack instead of up)
3) assign that envelope to the volume fader of the basstrack in ableton

--> automated midi compression tadaaa

, and instead of the classic attack/release parameters you get the fulll ADSR envelope parameters for your compression

2 bis) you can extract the velocity data from the midi note in bidule and use that to control the power of the envelope --> kick with more velocity creates bigger compression on the bass ( or the other way around : a very silent kick will compress the bass more than a hard kick , possibilities are endless , you could even assign the envelope to the pitch instead of the volume so the bass would go up an octave each time the kick plays , effectively reducing the lower frequencies in the basstrack ...)

I'd post the bidule setup if i still had it , but my bidule tryout has expired a long time ago and it lacks too much hardcore programming possibilities for me to invest in an earlybird license