MIDI Beat Juggling Template

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Patch
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Post by Patch » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:33 am

I think I'm gonna have to read that again...

DeadlyKungFu
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Post by DeadlyKungFu » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:29 am

Patch wrote:I think I'm gonna have to read that again...
I've been reading and trying to get it for an hour now. I had a post all written out but I'm not really getting it.

Some juggle clips are simple (the top 8 pads on the trigger finger), some juggle clips are more complex (the middle 4 of the TF). Do the complex ones use follow mode? Do you organise so that juggle clips juggle the track next to it?

That's about as close as I can elaborate what I'm picking up on without asking a ton of questions at once and confusing the hell out of myself.

I need to sit down and try it, too much work lately.


When you put together juggle clips do you focus on the snare (or snare scratches/sounds) on the 2 and 4? I guess when you juggle you do this by nature, it's weird to think of deconstructing what you do with vinyl into Live.

very confused, very interested.

Patch
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Location: Bristol, UK

Post by Patch » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:53 am

DeadlyKungFu wrote:very confused, very interested.
Tell me about it, son!!! I am seriously desperate to get the hang of this juggling - I can't wait to start throwing down in my breaks and hip-hop sets.

I won't be using a TF, though - so it's gonna be ASCII keys for me... In the studio I'll be using a DM2, but for playing out it's definitely just keys and a UC-33e for this cat...

Now - let's go and read Phat's post again. And again. And again...

The Phat Conductor
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Post by The Phat Conductor » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:58 pm

ok, the top 8 pads mute the track next to it, the one you're juggling overtop of. so it sounds like a crossfader cutting in a sound. i usually reserve these for 2-4 beat fills. i often cut up a loop over two pads, so i have it starting on the kick with one, and on the snare for the other.

the next 4, the more complex ones, are triggered using clipFill mode of controlAid. when this mode is on, it makes it so that consecutive presses of the same pad produce increasing note numbers. this allows you to step through different clips. you can use this to either step through a drumbreak, or to juggle two different vocals together, etc.

*** these four pads do NOT mute the track you're juggling over. they are for throwing things on top. at least in my setup.

eq:

straight = "you know it biotch"

w. clipfill:

1st = 'you...'
2nd = 'know...'
3rd = 'it...'
4th = 'mutha- (new sample now... loaded into the clipslots below)
5th = 'fu-
6th = 'fu-
7th = 'fu-
8th = 'fukka!'

repeat

anyway, i think i'm going to have to make you guys a video when i get back. it's probably easier to just see it.
ill gates aka the phat conductor
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher

http://www.illgates.com

DeadlyKungFu
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Post by DeadlyKungFu » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:28 pm

Thanks Phat! It makes a lot more sense now, part of it all is having never used Control Aid, but I think I get the gist of it. Part of learning it for me will be to start making my own juggles, there's some shit you can't learn by reading.

A video would be da bomb! The sites and sounds of a set like this, damn...

Thanks for the tips!!

Patch
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Post by Patch » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:33 pm

Video? Now you're talking!!!

Anybody know what the ControlAid equivelent is on PC? It sounds like I could use the DM2 midi macros to do this...

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:47 am

Bome's midi translator
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

noharmlessrock
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Post by noharmlessrock » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:20 pm

The Phat Conductor wrote: you do not need a midi controller to assign notes.

what you do is:

make a clip on your iac channel (WOULD THE "JUGGLES" CHANNEL BE CONSIDERED THE "IAC" CHANNEL? IF SO I JUST MADE A TRACK WITH UNUSED MIDI NOTES C8,C#8, AND D8) and stop every other clip in the session. leave the iac clip playing, and stop ableton. now when you press spacce, the iac clip will start. you can then go into midi mode with the sequencer stopped, pick a note (THIS IS WHERE I GET STUCK, I DONT KNOW WHERE I PICK THE NOTE FROM...IS IT FROM THE COMPUTER KEYBOARD, DO I SCROLL SOMEHOW TO IT?) to assign your midi to then start the sequencer and POW it is routed. (I UNDERSTAND HOW START/STOPPING CAN HELP ASSIGN THE NOTE, I JUST CANT GET TO THAT POINT)

with this technique it is easy to do a lot of routing quickly because you don't have to leave midi mapping mode to change what note is in your IAC clip. just stop and start ableton, and move that note around in the IAC clip. you can do a whole keyboard very easily.

any help on the above would be great! I have put in CAPS what I have done and where i get stuck. To be able to assign midi notes without a seperate controller would be a great help to me!

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:01 pm

take a step back a second.

to repeatedly launch a clip with an external keyboard you'd set that track's input to external, set the Monitor to IN, enable 'REMOTE' IN in the preferences for that device, then hit midi learn and assign a key.

this trick does the same thing except instead of a midi keyboard you have a clip in live that goes out via MIDI yoke then back in via MIDI Yoke. You have to set MIDI Yoke to REMOTE out and in, so the command goes out and back in.

Instead of MIDI yoke you can do the same thing by taking a midi cable, connecting an input port to an output port and setting the REMOTE IN/OUT accordingly.

hth

The Phat Conductor
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Post by The Phat Conductor » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:06 pm

ok, so for assigning midi notes to juggle with:

you would ideally like to be able to juggle with either the midi clip, or with your hands using a trigger finger or whatever. it would be best to use the same note numbers for both. your software programmer/librarian (i use enigma) will tell you the note numbers of each pad.

you can also find a table of midi note numbers here: http://www.harmony-central.com/MIDI/Doc/table2.html
***please note that in ableton the octaves start at -2 instead of -1, so you'll have to subtract 1 from whatever it says on the chart.

to assign from the computer keyboard directly IS possible. just make sure that you have the note numbers right and let er rip. you can tell which notes you are using by looking at the bottom left when you are transposing the keyboard using the z and x keys. just remember to compensate for the chart starting an octave higher and you will be fine.
ill gates aka the phat conductor
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher

http://www.illgates.com

noharmlessrock
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:46 pm

Post by noharmlessrock » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:39 pm

The Phat Conductor wrote:
to assign from the computer keyboard directly IS possible. just make sure that you have the note numbers right and let er rip. you can tell which notes you are using by looking at the bottom left when you are transposing the keyboard using the z and x keys. just remember to compensate for the chart starting an octave higher and you will be fine.
wow, thanks for the quick response! But I have z/x'ed till i was blue in the face and none of the computer keyboard keys seem to assign a midi note. it really is making me nuts!

in the process i have turned on/off the midi track/sync/remote options in pref for IAC and now the midi clip isnt triggering the clips in the template, it was humming pefectly earlier....

The Phat Conductor
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm

Post by The Phat Conductor » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:44 pm

for the iac: go to the midi/sync prefs and turn 'track' and 'remote' on for the iac.

for the computer keyboard: make sure the little keyboard icon is lit when you're using the computer keyboard. it's the toggle between midi mode and keymap mode. it's up at the top right near 'key' and 'midi'.
ill gates aka the phat conductor
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher

http://www.illgates.com

noharmlessrock
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:46 pm

Post by noharmlessrock » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:43 am

The Phat Conductor wrote:
for the computer keyboard: make sure the little keyboard icon is lit when you're using the computer keyboard. it's the toggle between midi mode and keymap mode. it's up at the top right near 'key' and 'midi'.
Still no luck.
From what i can tell Live refuses to recognise the keyboard as a a controller. (either in midi ports or any of the presets) . I just dont know what else to try.

Is there any way I can use the MIDI keyboard in say Garage Band to assign these notes?

Got to say, I get so excited when i play around with that Mos Def track that I just cant wait to Juggle..! Soon soon.

The Phat Conductor
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm

Post by The Phat Conductor » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:21 am

if you're really stumped i can sell you the finished trigger finger dj template, complete with all mappings, navigation, browser access, etc.

you need to be on a mac though. don't know when i'll get around to doing a pc version.

ez

d
ill gates aka the phat conductor
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher

http://www.illgates.com

noharmlessrock
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:46 pm

Post by noharmlessrock » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:45 pm

Got it to Map MIDI. Long story short, I just use my AKAI MPC to plug in the notes! thanks again Phat! I do have a few more questions for you

1. Can we talk about how you write the MIDI (IAC) Juggle clip a bit more? Is there a method to the madness of how you select the notes to program, or is more trial and error? I noticed with your mos def MJC (Midi Juggle Clip)
that I would randomly delete a row of notes, and it would give song a much different feel. I love random, I love chance, but if there is a more logical starting point to how you write a MJC, it would be great to hear how you do it

2. Does Juggling eat up CPU? for some reason, I tried to load up/assign a bunch of clips last night, and it seemed like everything was freezing and playing much slower than usual...just curious

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