Help with Getting Bass Line and Kick to sound tight??
Help with Getting Bass Line and Kick to sound tight??
Hi can anyone post some links or tips on how to make bass notes/lines to sound good with a kick drum???
Asus M6Q00V Pentium M 1.86 1 Gig DDR2 Ram Echo Indigo DJ Win XP Pro Ableton 5
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Lo-Fi Massahkah
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RangeAudio
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dupe or not, who cares........
basslines fighting with kicks is an issue every producer/engineer has to face.. its really all about eq and choosing the right kick/bass sound. I am an engineer first, producer second, and dj third.. here is what I do.
First I decide which part ,the kick or the bass, the song calls for to be heavy. A deep, housy thumping kick just wont work with a deep thick bass, at least it wont work without some surgery.,, You have to compromise one or both. After deciding, say I want the kick to be more pronounced,, ill eq and put a medium to narrow Q (width) and give it 6-9dB. Then I just fish around with the frequencies until the kick sounds the best, that is the sweet spot. These frequencies will be eq'ed out of the bass, not killed, but at least cut a decent bit. IF the bass' sweet spot is above the kick's, then it works good because I can do the same treatment to the kick and usually it fits like a puzzle,, especially if you limit them together with a good limiter. Listen to songs with deep basslines, you'll find the kick sits high and is generally thin, vice versa for tracks with heavy thumping kicks, the bass is usually eq'd out of the way.. Fish around, cut things and dont be afraid to give kick drums a boost around 4k, it helps the snap.. good luck
basslines fighting with kicks is an issue every producer/engineer has to face.. its really all about eq and choosing the right kick/bass sound. I am an engineer first, producer second, and dj third.. here is what I do.
First I decide which part ,the kick or the bass, the song calls for to be heavy. A deep, housy thumping kick just wont work with a deep thick bass, at least it wont work without some surgery.,, You have to compromise one or both. After deciding, say I want the kick to be more pronounced,, ill eq and put a medium to narrow Q (width) and give it 6-9dB. Then I just fish around with the frequencies until the kick sounds the best, that is the sweet spot. These frequencies will be eq'ed out of the bass, not killed, but at least cut a decent bit. IF the bass' sweet spot is above the kick's, then it works good because I can do the same treatment to the kick and usually it fits like a puzzle,, especially if you limit them together with a good limiter. Listen to songs with deep basslines, you'll find the kick sits high and is generally thin, vice versa for tracks with heavy thumping kicks, the bass is usually eq'd out of the way.. Fish around, cut things and dont be afraid to give kick drums a boost around 4k, it helps the snap.. good luck
that's very good advice about slightly boosting your kickdrum in the upper freq range.
this may be overally siplistic but take a band and give it a really sharp q and sweep it up and the eq4 and you should get a pretty good idea of what frequencies need to be boost and cut by listening.
you may be surprised to find that often cuttin a certain freq and not boosting is what makes your kickdrum sit up a bit. This is often the case with the eq. Sometimes a cut gets the frequencies out of the way that are muddy and the good sound stands out more.
The thing I had the hardest time learning is eq, you have a natural tendacy to boost the hell out of everything, when in fact there are better tools for that such as the compressor..etc. Remind yourself from time to time that your trying to shape the sound with eq but give it punch with compression. This works for me, but I think no two people work the same.
this may be overally siplistic but take a band and give it a really sharp q and sweep it up and the eq4 and you should get a pretty good idea of what frequencies need to be boost and cut by listening.
you may be surprised to find that often cuttin a certain freq and not boosting is what makes your kickdrum sit up a bit. This is often the case with the eq. Sometimes a cut gets the frequencies out of the way that are muddy and the good sound stands out more.
The thing I had the hardest time learning is eq, you have a natural tendacy to boost the hell out of everything, when in fact there are better tools for that such as the compressor..etc. Remind yourself from time to time that your trying to shape the sound with eq but give it punch with compression. This works for me, but I think no two people work the same.
voodu wrote:
it's is also a good thing if you eq. the relation between overlaying frequencies of the bass and kick, or any other with each other fighting frequencies, for that matter rather *cut out* the overlapping frequencies in one of the parts, e.g. bass rather then boosting the weaker ones... *minus* eq-ing is very, very often totally overlooked, most people tend to turn the weak frequencies up rather then the strong ones down... but that way you loose ultimately headroom.
punchiness you can achieve with a compressor and sometimes a little limiting or a gate can help and ducking is another very good trick, that means sidechaining the compressor to the bass, so that he squashes the bass everytime the kick sets in. just take a compressor with a sidechain function, place the comp onto the bass and the sidechain to the kick, then adjust the threshold of the sidechain so that everytime the kick is *active* it triggers the comp on the bass / it is *ducking* the bass away to make room for the kick to come through, set the parameters of the comp on the bass track accordingly of how you want it to sound like!!! use your ears while tweaking and ignore the labeled numbers / values on the compressor... !!!
on a compressor a long attack and release setting will drive the kick towards a pumping sound... there is no one in all comp setting!!! at all!!!, the only rule of thumb is start *low and slow* and listen... use your ears.
hope it will help.
very valid point, also i agree often a little less is more.The thing I had the hardest time learning is eq, you have a natural tendacy to boost the hell out of everything, when in fact there are better tools for that such as the compressor..etc. Remind yourself from time to time that your trying to shape the sound with eq but give it punch with compression. This works for me, but I think no two people work the same.
it's is also a good thing if you eq. the relation between overlaying frequencies of the bass and kick, or any other with each other fighting frequencies, for that matter rather *cut out* the overlapping frequencies in one of the parts, e.g. bass rather then boosting the weaker ones... *minus* eq-ing is very, very often totally overlooked, most people tend to turn the weak frequencies up rather then the strong ones down... but that way you loose ultimately headroom.
punchiness you can achieve with a compressor and sometimes a little limiting or a gate can help and ducking is another very good trick, that means sidechaining the compressor to the bass, so that he squashes the bass everytime the kick sets in. just take a compressor with a sidechain function, place the comp onto the bass and the sidechain to the kick, then adjust the threshold of the sidechain so that everytime the kick is *active* it triggers the comp on the bass / it is *ducking* the bass away to make room for the kick to come through, set the parameters of the comp on the bass track accordingly of how you want it to sound like!!! use your ears while tweaking and ignore the labeled numbers / values on the compressor... !!!
on a compressor a long attack and release setting will drive the kick towards a pumping sound... there is no one in all comp setting!!! at all!!!, the only rule of thumb is start *low and slow* and listen... use your ears.
hope it will help.
Does the built-in Ableton effects have a feature that allow one to "sidechain the compressor to the bass(guitar), so that he squashes the bass(guitar) everytime the kick sets in"
If so, could someone tell me how, or put me into the right direction on how to do it?
Syid
If so, could someone tell me how, or put me into the right direction on how to do it?
Syid
Ibook G4 w/Tiger. 933Mhz,640MB- M-Audio Ozonic -Yamaha PSR-500
Syid Rawling
Syid Rawling
hi syid, i have to admit that i am very new to live5 or for that matter live in general *it's my first version* so i am using a lot a waves C1 in logic and live, but the waves stuff is very, very expensive... however i will check the live compressor out (did not used any of the live plugs yet!) and give you, if possible an exact tutorial on *how to* with ableton... stay tuned for a few days... i will check it.
cheers
cheers
ok, here we go... SORRY but the compressor II has not a *TRUE sidechain* function... but however you can achieve quiet good results, i checked it.
but to save me long writing the simple "sidechain" function of the comp II in ableton is decent enough explained in the PDF that comes with live.
read it, otherwise you have to use a third-party *TRUE sidechain* compressor.
good luck.
but to save me long writing the simple "sidechain" function of the comp II in ableton is decent enough explained in the PDF that comes with live.
read it, otherwise you have to use a third-party *TRUE sidechain* compressor.
good luck.
Saarinen wrote:
but the TC bundle compressor is a *true* sidechainer... it's not made anymore, but you might still find it!!, it's a VST and you need to wrap it to an AU, if you want to use it as AU!, for say logic as well... it has a module to stick into the drum / kick track, there you adjust the threshhold and and then stick the comp onto the bass... the threshold setting of the *module* will then trigger the comp!!
the waves website features a lot of good tips and tricks as well, even if you do not use waves plugs, the principles are mainly the same, well worth a look: http://waves.com/content.asp?id=174
cheers
the waves C1 has and you also has the option of ducking EQ or *real* ducking, but only for mono sources. and it's not totally straightforward...I've been trying to figure out how to do the sidechaining thing myself. Does anyone know of any compressor for mac that has _true_ sidechaining for ducking the bass?
but the TC bundle compressor is a *true* sidechainer... it's not made anymore, but you might still find it!!, it's a VST and you need to wrap it to an AU, if you want to use it as AU!, for say logic as well... it has a module to stick into the drum / kick track, there you adjust the threshhold and and then stick the comp onto the bass... the threshold setting of the *module* will then trigger the comp!!
the waves website features a lot of good tips and tricks as well, even if you do not use waves plugs, the principles are mainly the same, well worth a look: http://waves.com/content.asp?id=174
cheers