FATTEN up the mix

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skyworm
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FATTEN up the mix

Post by skyworm » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:15 pm

It seems as if my mixes are all lacking that big nugg.
I've thrown an EQ on the master, But... it still doesn't sound like it has ballz.

What am I missing along the way? This program beats any on the market.
What the integrated solution here?

THX,
Sky

pixelbox
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Post by pixelbox » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:58 pm

What are you listening to it through? If all you have is a cheap pair of headphones, then it doesn't matter how much you tweak, it'll sound bad.

skyworm
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Fatten up the mix

Post by skyworm » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:29 pm

perfect point.
Say I play an mp3 mix designed in Live5 on a pair of nice headphones. IT SOUNDS AWESOME!
Now...
Say I play th same mp3 made in live5, on some quality speakers. It too sounds awesome. Now if i play someone elses song not made in live but of simliar style, on the same speakers, it seems that the comparison of ballz on my mix is lacking.

So what I;m saying is how do oI get my levels to compare. Is it just mastering expertise?

Voodu
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Post by Voodu » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:32 pm

Sadly enough ues it is!! Let me put it this way it's not just the pure volume level that gives a track "balls" it's also the frequency range. Most standard limiters can make anything as loud as a commercial cd without a problem, but if your track isn't eq properly it will sound weak next to a pro release.

I myself, suck at mastering and have been using a program "auto audio mastering system version 2" which masters my track to a source file I designate. I've had good results with it, but the results are not "professional." A hell of alot better than what I was doing on my own however!!

Michael-SW
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Post by Michael-SW » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:40 pm

Compression!

The secret to a "modern" sound is to use lots of compression. (Hey, don't kill the messenger...it is true). Doing compression well is really hard, but a must if your music is going to sound pro. At least if we are talking electronic dance music or even pop.

Experiment a lot with compressors. Don't overdo it. Be careful to keep the peak audio level at the same level all the time, otherwise you are just fooling your ears.

Voodu
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Post by Voodu » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:48 pm

Very true!! Compression is key as well. Why the hell did I totally leave that out?

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:04 pm

to me the key is sound selection, what sounds good / excellent on its own very often isn't that great when colliding against everything else in a mix.

thats why people tend to carve with eq, to make enough notches for the bass sound/kick/kit/pads/ etc to shine through.
often if you heard what you might think was a fat pad on its own it would sound a little weird and weedy. So really, there is a world of skills that need to be obtained in the mix stage to get a good sound.
If you find them - let me know :)

compuphonic
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Post by compuphonic » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:44 am

Actually its multiband compression you want rather than just a plain compressor.

A good mix is often a combination of a good listening environment, taking your time, some eq, and some multiband compression/limiting.

Have a look at Ozone http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/

See if the demo version helps with the sound your after

dbolt
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Post by dbolt » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:01 pm

Only if I had enough money to go to Full Sail a recording arts school here in America and get that PRO learning. But something that always helps my mixes is duplicate your tracks and pan each track say hard left and the other hard right or just a little panning on each and eq on both tracks this really helps. I read this is so many MAGZ to get that full production sound. It doesnt always work for everything like others have said selection EQ carving Multi-band compression. I always wanting to get Oztope Im downloading the demo again. I also use Reaktor 5 Flatblaster 2.1 works really wel. It has some good presets.

I hope this thread keeps going with more tips. This is a good topic

Later
Dustin

vinkalmann
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Post by vinkalmann » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:54 pm

"Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science" by Bob Katz is worth buying. A good portion of the book was over my head, but after a couple of reads it makes a lot of sense. Definitely worth the purchase price.
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[Guide to Mixing in Arrangement View^][Guide to Warping in Ableton Live^]

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:15 pm

dbolt wrote: But something that always helps my mixes is duplicate your tracks and pan each track say hard left and the other hard right or just a little panning on each and eq on both tracks this really helps.
Could you explain more on this? What is the difference between having duplicate tracks panned left/right, and just having one stereo track?
Is there different processing on the left and right side?

I think I have heard this technique used, where the left and right sound the same, but different....but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what's going on...

dbolt
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Post by dbolt » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:36 am

ethios4 wrote:
Could you explain more on this? What is the difference between having duplicate tracks panned left/right, and just having one stereo track?
Is there different processing on the left and right side?

Well I usually have duplicate tracks just panned alittle to the left and right, 1/4 each way. This makes it much louder having the 4 stereo tracks going out. I also read about the hard panning technique, Its seems like a stereo imaging type of effect someone correct me if im wrong. I can see like a mono track that sits right in the middle vs that stereo spectrum that sits a finds that pocket; like a good bass line it has to ride that pocket to really drive the song.


Im really starting to see how hard it is to really get that solid mix where every sound has to have its own space in such a small area when your dealing with just stereo paths. I try all sorts of EQ carving but with no PRO experience just my own natural ears with no training.

After listening to my MBM Wild Remix for the 3rd MAster. Just not quite their yet. It made me call FULL SAIL Recording Arts School in Winter PArk, FL only maybe 6 to 10 hours away. WOW 12 month Assoicates degree $43,000. You know if I had all the money I spent on MAGZ I could have well only about a thousand of it, maybe, not really. :mrgreen:


Good Thread lets keep it going!


Later
Dustin

Play
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Post by Play » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:52 am

I'm just learning the ropes of mixing myself. Duplicating your basslines and panning hard in both directions adds a lot of width. Something else my buddy taught me was to duplicate your final track... like a rendered mix. Carve out EVERYTHING but the high-highs. Put some reverb on it and mix it in until you barely hear the difference. Adds some nice air!
MacPro Quad, Dual 23" Apple Displays-15" MacBook Pro-Logic8, Live7, PowerSuite5-MAudio BX8s-Mackie Control Universal, ReMOTE SL 37, Korg padKONTROL-Serato Scratch SL3 & VSL-2 Pioneer CDJ1000MK2s, Pioneer DJM800

dbolt
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Post by dbolt » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:06 am

Play Wrote:
something else my buddy taught me was to duplicate your final track... like a rendered mix

Much Louder I like it! I just need to get better at EQ Carving Any Tips on using Ableton's EQ4?

Later
Dustin

overdub
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Reference listening

Post by overdub » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:27 am

You might wanna try digging in to stuff like this http://www.digido.com/
Check out the "CD honour roll" from the menu on the left hand side - read the whole works.... and also read the "How to make better recordings, part 2"
it helped me alot in understanding why my mixes sounded flat.( I know they speak of ancient recordings and dinosaur rock in the article - but the techniques and general principles are the same for modern day recordings)
When you do a mastering project - try to have a track containing a "well mastered, and well known HIT of you choice" in your project, for reference listening, that way you can "easily" match the absolute loudness of your mix to the "pro mix" that you use for guidance.

"Dub music is natural - like breathing in your sleep - don't fight it :wink:
Gearslut :o)

More bass in the hi-hat

www.daffydub.com
www.myspace.com/daffyscrib

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