FATTEN up the mix

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mikemusicked
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Post by mikemusicked » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:18 pm

The best and clearest book I've since on Mixing is

"The Mixing Engineers Handbook" by Bobby Owsinski (MixBooks)

Great info on EQ, FX, Compression and interviews with engineers

ALSO, an entire section on Surround Sound mixing
*making musick should be fun*

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:31 pm

that book is OK, but it does contain a few factual errors, which is a bit un-nerving.
for example - he says that:
" EQ cut does not introduce phase shift while EQ boost does introduce phase shift."
That isn't correct, all eq procedures (cut or boost) introduce phase shift if it is non-linear EQ. (linear EQ doesnt introduce phase shift, but there is still no difference between cut or boost)
The interviews are interesting, although they do tend to illustrate how different everyones mixing styles are. There's no one size fits all solution - lots of aproaches work.
IMO : Worth getting, but don't take it as gospel.

spiderprod
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Post by spiderprod » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:01 pm

waves plugins do a really good job for me , Rbass is quite good to add the subharmonics you need to fatten a track & linMB is good to get a good master sound .

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:26 pm

in my experience and opinion, there is absolut NO substitution for experimenting and trying as much as you possibly can, practise, practise, practise... every really good producer / mix engineer has developed his own 'chemical' recipe of plugs & hardware the interaction and use at a given time / situation... spending time to 'learn this process' is essentiell and there is NO shortcut around it, even the best gear on the planet will not help to mix and produce propperly if you don't do your 'homework' first.

a book is a good starting point to get a basic idea and then develope from there your own.

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:38 am

Wow! Ok, there are a few good tips but a load of bad info too. Forget the complcated tips. Phat mixes have been made for 50 years with the same techniques. Here are some basics that will handle most of what you need.....EQ, think subtractive when you handle an EQ. Pull out the offending frequency, don't add until you have subtracted. A sound may be muffled, don't add high end yet, pull out the muff first ie 200hz. This might do it all and not need high boost...... Compression, take it easy. This is what seperates the mix men from the mix boys. For now if we are talking about dance/hip hop programed stuff, don't eq the kik and snare or perc. they repeat perfectly already so just find a level and subtle eq then leave it alone......Panning, is not a big deal but it does require some thought. Don't worry so much about that. How many punters sit right between there speakers? not many. Try mixing with it all in the center until it sounds balanced then play with your pans. It shouldn't make or break your mix. Put foundation sounds in the middle and spatial at the edges. Get a balance with just eq at first and try not to solo sounds for more than a few seconds. Stay in the entire sound and mix from that. I mix for a living, you would be surprized at what little i do to make it bump. natural performed live sounds and instruments are another monster but the above stuff still apply. If you don't like what you've done, throw down the faders, take off the plugins, do it again and don't keep beating up an old mix. IMHO

supster
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Post by supster » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:59 am

maybe im mistaken, but the original poster was asking about a set

if its a set using already mastered material - ie tracks for DJing or other purposes - imo careful with all of the multiband compression and EQ and etc

it can easily wreck it. for DJ sets:

- start with 320kbps files if MP3, 192 only as last resort

- using the gain slider on each clip - adjust the gain of individual clips so the peak of the track is not clipping your track meter on the channel

- on the master channel:

voxengo gliss EQ - Hi Quality, Mode 2. all bands at 0db (flat). this helps remove the ultra hi freqency intermodulation distortion from the MP3 coding ... i dont know how. but it does .. if you want to adjust the EQ on the entire mix with this you can, but i normally dont mess with it. then

psp vintagewarmer - Mix at 50%, Limit at 0db, Drive at +4, Low centered at ~85HZ and Hi centered at ~7Khz ... then individual drive controls for these at either 0db or no more than +2 on either .. careful ..

vintagewarmer does subtle limiting and phattens up, warms the sound further, and boosts overall loudness. now:

- find the points of highest gain in your entire mix, and pull down the master channel so that the red is not flashing at these points. if your clip gains are done correctly and you mixed right, this should be about -3db

- render at 24bit

- pull the resulting wav file back into your set on a blank channel in arrange view, let the waveform draw. now look for those areas on the waveform that are your peak spots. use the clip gain control to push the waveform up so that you are not clipping off these points. you can gain about 2db this way

- CTRL-J to consolidate to disk

- convert your new mastered wav file to format of choice

The resulting mix is loud, phat, not clipped, not crushed, not making your ears bleed on hi frequency distortion, and overall doesnt sound like sh*t

....and you did it with minimal screwing with the file by overprocessing, overcompression loudness maximizers, etc etc

i feel like ive tried everything and this is what works for me

.
--
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josh 'vonster' von; tracks and sets
http://www.joshvon.com

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:05 am

knotkranky wrote:
If you don't like what you've done, throw down the faders, take off the plugins, do it again and don't keep beating up an old mix. IMHO
i second that. 100%

Turkishjade
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Post by Turkishjade » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:53 am

I took a rendered Wav over to my mate's flat and he used Har-Bal (www.har-bal.com) on it. Hands down, it's the simplest and most effective version for "fattening" up your mix without having to read a 300 page book.

That's cuz I'm lazy. I really do recommend reading those books and actually knowing what it takes to do it, but if you want quick decent results until you are up to speed... this is the way to go.

Typically, you render to wav, open up Har-Bal, tweak for 20-30 seconds, click record and in 5-10 seconds, you have a newly rendered wav that sounds brilliant.

Cheers.

knotkranky
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mastering shmastering

Post by knotkranky » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:04 am

If you want your mixes to sound good and have that ballzy big sound with them nuggz, then forget about mastering. FORGET ABOUT MASTERING!! Really!! It's an over bloated blip in the scheme of what makes a track great. It's last in the chain and last in priorities so don't give it so much credence. Mastering is what you do after you're done making it great. That's why the joke of fixing your recording in the mix and fixing the mix at mastering is so freakin funny. A mix never goes from suck to great in mastering. Now, i've mastered much music and have had Ludwig, Schreyer, Traugott and more master stuff in front of me. These dudes will not hesitate to say; "you need to mix this again" Yeah man, what does that tell ya. So, after you are done perfecting your track, work your brain on the mix and nothing but the mix so help me Fletcher-Munson and don't be afraid to do it again and remix from scratch a few times. Select "save as", give it a new name, take off them plugins and hit it again. You may even need to re-record a track or two. Hell try mixing it fast. It will keep you from overbaking it a keep it rowdy. You need to love it before you master.

xone:
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Post by xone: » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:39 pm

plz help

here's my situation.
I put some mastering effect on master track for mastering effect purpose.

But when I record my mix, every tracks has recorded but not master track.

So, in other words, master track with mastering chain doesn't work for recording.

If I could render master track that recorded with mastering device, the mix would be more smooth thank to the mastering effects.

I've gone through the mastering, and dj mix recording thread to some extent. Do you guys have any new suggestions or opinion, comment that you found lately?

thank you fory our suggestions in advance.
Last edited by xone: on Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Live 8/ OS X 10.6 /
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knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:22 pm

I believe rendering is pre master channel so, make a new audio track, buss all your outputs of the other tracks to it, move your mastering plugins to the new submaster track and render. Should be good.

xone:
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Post by xone: » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:09 am

knotkranky wrote:I believe rendering is pre master channel so, make a new audio track, buss all your outputs of the other tracks to it, move your mastering plugins to the new submaster track and render. Should be good.
Thanks. it works. Even though I'd been recorded my mix from sub master on analogue mixer when I had one, I've never come up with the idea.
Thanks a lot.

It's nice to live in venice beach area to work on music, by the way. I feel so stucked doing it at heart of hollywood. I used to live there for a while.
Live 8/ OS X 10.6 /
Macbook Pro 2.5Ghz /HDD Glyph /krk v8 / novation x-station /
-VSTs-
FM8, Massive, Kontakt, Pro 53
Korg legacy collection, Trilian, Gradiator,
Sound Toys, SPL, PSP, Sausage Fattner

mercyplease
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Re: FATTEN up the mix

Post by mercyplease » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:23 am

skyworm wrote:It seems as if my mixes are all lacking that big nugg.
I've thrown an EQ on the master, But... it still doesn't sound like it has ballz.

What am I missing along the way? This program beats any on the market.
What the integrated solution here?

THX,
Sky
Layer your sounds but only the key elements to allow for space within your mix.

drewdrops
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Post by drewdrops » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:57 am

knotkranky wrote:I believe rendering is pre master channel so, make a new audio track, buss all your outputs of the other tracks to it, move your mastering plugins to the new submaster track and render. Should be good.

eh? is that in Live 5, in live 4 any plugin on the Master channel effects the final out put

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:06 am

drewdrops wrote:
knotkranky wrote:I believe rendering is pre master channel so, make a new audio track, buss all your outputs of the other tracks to it, move your mastering plugins to the new submaster track and render. Should be good.

eh? is that in Live 5, in live 4 any plugin on the Master channel effects the final out put
Can't say for a fact, I don't master in Live. I read it somewhere?

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