SOLVED: Accessing ALL vst parameters, not just the first 128

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gwydi
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SOLVED: Accessing ALL vst parameters, not just the first 128

Post by gwydi » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:00 am

This solution is for Windows users only, I'm afraid, but somebody might know of an equivalent product for Mac ...

This trick gives you the opportunity to decide WHICH 128 parameters of your VST you can see, not just the FIRST 128. (Arturia's CS80, for example, has 548!), and should work for ANY VST.

You'll need a copy of the "VST instrument" version of EnergyXT (eXT) - http://www.xt-hq.com/ - which is only 39 Euros or about $US50, but you can do all of this with the demo version first to make sure it works for you. eXT is a great little tool to have anyway, but I'm not going to go into too much detail about it here, you can read that for yourself at their website. (When you buy it, I think you get all versions included).

Once eXT is installed (make sure you tell it where your VSTs are), create a midi channel in Live and put an eXT VSTi into it (energyXT, not energyXTE). Unfold the parameter list, which reads param0 .. param127.

Open the eXT GUI, right-click on the workspace and select 'Param mapper'.

Change the top dropdown to read 'Enable param to CC mapping' (it is DISabled by default).

Now select all the controllers you'd like to be able to use by clicking in the 'use' column so a tick appears. You can rename them if you really want to, perhaps later when you've assigned them to actual parameters (changes don't show in Live immediately, but they do show up the next time you move that slider).

Now add your VST to the energy XT window (right-click, VST->, then select the one you want). Its audio and midi connections should get auto-routed. Now open its GUI by double-clicking on it.

What happens next depends on what VST you're using.

In the case of CS80, I can ctrl-click a parameter to open the 'Midi control setup' (ie, midi learn) function. Then I click 'learn', move the appropriate slider in Live's parameter list (ie, param0 .. param127), and the assignment is made.

If your VST of choice has no midi-learn function, you do it this way instead; in the VST GUI, click the "File" button (top left-hand corner) and then select 'cc map'. Click 'add', select the CC number you wish to use (click and drag on the field to do that), then select the parameter you wish to control from the dropdown list, and if necessary the range of values you'd like to enforce. The appropriate 'param' slider in Live (ie, param0=cc0, param1=cc1, etc) will now control that parameter.

Of course, once you've done all that, you can use Live's midi assignments to assign physical hardware controls to the param sliders like you normally do. And/or you can draw envelopes for them. And so on.

It actually takes longer to explain than to do, and probably makes more sense when you're seeing it on the screen. The main thing is, it works, and it gets you around Live's 128 parameter limit :)

I'm so happy to have figured this out, it means I can stay working in Live :) Gratitude to Vurt at the kvraudio forums for pointing me in the right direction!

Enjoy!
~ Gywdi
http://www.gwydi.com

"Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." - Edmund Brown Jr.[/i]
Last edited by gwydi on Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:23 am, edited 5 times in total.

DKushner
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Post by DKushner » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:10 am

Sounds good. Is there a CPU hit? Do you know how well it works with Reaktor ensembles?

gwydi
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Post by gwydi » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:15 am

eXT is VERY light on CPU, especially when you're just using it as a shell in this way.

I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work with Reaktor or any other VST for that matter, because all eXT is really doing is acting as a host within a host.

My advice would be to download the energyXT "VST instrument" demo version and try it all for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed :)

G.
http://www.gwydi.com

"Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." - Edmund Brown Jr.

Clearscreen
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Post by Clearscreen » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:46 am

When you buy it, I think you get all versions included).
you certainly do! this is a pretty good solution actually...
Hp Elitebook 2.8Ghz. Live 7.0.14 & Live 8.1.5, XP Pro. and stuff...

Nev
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Post by Nev » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:46 am

DKushner wrote:Sounds good. Is there a CPU hit? Do you know how well it works with Reaktor ensembles?
Sounds like a cool workaround, but in Reaktor you can reassign contoller ids anyway ?


:)

beardedone
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Post by beardedone » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:10 pm

This is a good work around but the fundamental limitation needs to be addressed.

len9
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Post by len9 » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:12 pm

energyXT as a plugin is absolutely indispensible for working with vst(i)s inside of Live (or any other host for that matter).

Not only does it enable you to quickly assign controllers, it has many other benefits!

It's a modular environment, so it's very easy to set up complex routings.
You can save those complex chains with total recall.
energyXT rarely rejects a vst(i), so you can use it as a wrapper for the fussy ones that don't work natively in Live.
I can go on and on (I'm lost without it), but it's best to try for yourself.
The free demo is fully functional but will not load patches (you can save them, though...and load them after you unlock it)

Len

scyhte
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Post by scyhte » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:45 am

im not sure if it's live's or ext's fault but the parameter feedback doesn't seem to work well. moving the knobs on the surface of a synth loaded in ext doesn't move the assigned param slider in ableton but the one that complies the param list entry of the knob. so it happens that when i move a knob on the surface which is not assinged, some other knob that is assigned yet, moves too.
Asus F3Sv 2x2.2 Ghz, 2 GB RAM, WinXP | Edirol FA-66 Firewire | Live 7.0.2

sunrahrahrah
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Post by sunrahrahrah » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:01 am

is there a mac equivalent yet?

fatphil
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Post by fatphil » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:54 pm

sunrahrahrah wrote:is there a mac equivalent yet?
I believe plogue bidule http://www.plogue.com will provide similar wrapping functionality, and I believe that is available for the mac. It costs about 60 Euros. Unfortunately the most recent trial version has expired :?

I'd wait until anther trial version is available (should be very soon) so you can have a play with it before you decide to buy.

I use it for all sorts of midi mayhem like using my gamepad or graphics tablet as control surfaces.

Geezus
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Post by Geezus » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:44 pm

Any way to do this with xt2? I cant seem to find most of these options/menus in energyxt2

Gtrance
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Post by Gtrance » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:47 pm

Geezus wrote:Any way to do this with xt2? I cant seem to find most of these options/menus in energyxt2
same here :?


Geezus
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Post by Geezus » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:41 pm

I figured it out. You have to use the little keyboard button at the top. Buggy as hell though, it fucks up if you have mroe than one instance in ableton.

Also, I can't seem to get the fx version to work. No sound comes out no matter how I route the audio

arachnaut
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Post by arachnaut » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:54 pm

How does this compare to xlutop's Chainer VST host?

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