Clip View Scrub Area - Aaaagh! Orange Dot Killing Me!!

Teedub · Post by **Teedub** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:56 pm

How on earth do I make this little orange dot in the scrub area of my clip view go away and stop screwing up my clips and making them start part way through (where the dot is!) instead of at their respective loop point/start points, where I want (and have already programmed) them to? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

I'll have a scene with several clips in it, all of the same length in bars (I've carefully set the loop/start/end points as such) so they should match up and loop with each other perfectly like I'm used to - except for this hideous orange dot which capriciously shows up out of nowhere and sets some sort of arbitrary, unchangeable (as far as I can tell) start point for no reason I can comprehend.
It drives me crazy because I'm under the impression that when I went through and set my own start/stop points and loop points by hand, I had already told the clip exactly what I wanted it to do, and how and when. Then this beastly little orange gremlin rears its ugly head...

... now there's no sense anymore in even bothering to try to line clips up so they play correctly with each other, because it's impossible to win!

The thing seems to come and go every other time I fire my clips - and I hate it! I'm sure it's good for something, but since I have no idea of what that is, I want it to go away. Is there a "No-Orange-Dot-Which-Randomly-Screws-Up-Your-Clips-So-That-They-Refuse-To-Work-The-Way-You-Have-Set-Them-To" setting I can toggle? Is this a new feature with the latest release? I don't remember this happening before. I can't even select it or touch it with my mouse cursor. Even when I roll over it and look in the info view: No Info!! My tormentor is nameless! As far as I can tell at this point, this "feature" is the equivalent of a telemarketer with a private number that won't show up on your caller ID.

Orange Dot Die!!

Sorry if I'm, uh, a little emotional, I posted this right when I've been struggling with this thing for a while. I'll be OK, I promise.

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:40 pm

What version of Live 5 are you using?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:43 pm

are you using Live 5.03 ? that had some extra 'features' which made lining stuff up less fun. If so - install 5.2

read about the orange dot

I quote myself when I say
"Many people are confused by the orange dot, many people dislike it and call it the F.O.D - on the other hand there are three people who like it."

Teedub · Post by **Teedub** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:09 am

Wow, people around here are really quick with the replies. Thanks!

Are they up to 5.3 now? I'm using 5.2.

I just figured something out - you can make the orange dot go away by setting your clip's quantize setting to Bar (I found some official Orange Dot reading material and amongst all the confusion, it was mentioned that the dot has something to do with issues with Bar quantization so I gave it a shot).
Not a problem so far, but I can imagine I'll maybe be annoyed when I realize I'm in a situation where there just doesn't seem to be a decent workaround to getting my clips firing on the quarter note or whatever. All I know is that I set the quantize on my clips to Bar and now I can play tunes that don't sound like a jr. high marching band. Unless I want them to.

What there was to read (I kinda lost it, it was somewhere in these forums) was really confusing, sort of "the dot shows where the clip would fire if you'd fired it at a different time, or rather, more like if you're a train heading west but you're an orange dot fired later in the week than when the train left, or wait, it's more like..." - though I may just be simple-minded.
I'd really like to hear a simple explanation for why what the dot does is good, i.e. what it is that the dot does for those 3 people who like it, so I can wrap my head around the concept and start treating it as a friend.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:12 am

no, 5.03

that was the one before the current version
like this : 5.01, 5.02, 5.03, 5.2

they missed out 5.1 because people might think it was "ableton surround edition"

BTW - I kinda thought the explanation on the wiki would help , but perhaps not.

Teedub · Post by **Teedub** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:42 am

Duh, I think I assumed that you were linking to the thing I read, but you're right, the Wiki is definitely more detailed (and includes what I read). Thanks.

Heh. Now I get that it has something to do with a "nudge value".

So, when you Keep the orange dot, does it not just start but loop there as well (getting your clip progressively more and more out of whack with each loop)? Or after it plays through once does it loop back at the standard loop point again, keeping the clip at the same offset as it repeats?
I'm really happy to see that there's a Quit-Pestering-Me button (Revert), that's going to see a lot of use on my rig.

This almost seems sort of like another way to have a track delay.

EgAD · Post by **EgAD** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:37 am

i do not fucking get it

, can someone explain without the humor, mystery, and indulge me in the most laymen of laymens terms, pretty please

EgAD · Post by **EgAD** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:37 am

like what does it do?
and why would one use it?

thanks in advance

Teedub · Post by **Teedub** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:30 pm

I'm in exactly the same place as you, EgAD. I see the dot, I've read the words "nudge value" and I've found the "Keep" and "Revert" buttons (they're at the bottom of the far left panel of the clip view, the one that always stays open), so now I have a way of struggling with The Dot effectively, but I still have no concept of what its use is, what it is for, what it allows a person to do. I have no concept for its identity as a tool.

Good luck in your quest for knowledge, and if you find out anything, please report back here. I will do the same.
Maybe if we could track down one of those 3 people who like the F.O.D. they would be able to explain...

pucklermuskau · Post by **pucklermuskau** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:48 pm

its pretty straightforward: the orange dot refers to the playing position of the clip in relation to the master tempo. So if you have your quantize set to 1/4, and trigger the clip a little late into the bar, youll see the orange clip on the 1/4 mark, indicating that the clip is playing out of sync with the master tempo. If you hit revert, the clip play position will jump back 1/4, aligning it with the master tempo...

jamescecil · Post by **jamescecil** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:46 am

..okay, so i now know how to make this offset go away.

BUT i am running live as a rewire slave to protools, and every time i press play in protools teh little f.o.d. reapperas and my live session is out of sync with my protools session.

so, why does this quarter note offset of live against protools happen? can i make it go away? do i really have to go into each track in live and press "revert" each time i want to press play in pro tools??

i don't really care what the reason for the f.o.d is, as long as i can never, ever look at it.

thanks for your help!

james

ps: an aside; as a veteran protools user learning to use live [because i think it has incredible potential for what i'm doing] i spend a LOT of time trying to find the answer to simple questions which, in pro tools, i can always just look up in the index to teh manual and solve. i understand ableton isn't digidesign [thank god!], but the ableton manual is pretty hopeless.

but then, thats where you kind people come in!!

Clip View Scrub Area - Aaaagh! Orange Dot Killing Me!!

Clip View Scrub Area - Aaaagh! Orange Dot Killing Me!!

F.O.D. screwing up the sync with my pro tools session