Tips and Tricks: Making Dub with Live

Share your Ableton Live secrets here
Gyro
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:40 am

Tips and Tricks: Making Dub with Live

Post by Gyro » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:50 am

There seemed to be no official topic for this, so thought I'd start my own

Alright brethren, let's come together and share as one...

I wish I had some good tips for getting that deep Dub bassline, but I'm struggling with it myself. What I can offer is a tip on how to get that Chugga Chugga guitar thing happening

Ok so I use the Slayer VST, using the multi-tap setting to give a bit of a delay to the chop. I make sure i have the eq settings so that it's more of a trebly sound than bassy. And I link the 'damp' switch to a midi control so that I can change the length of the chop. I'd say mess around with the amp, string etc. settings but just keep in mind the clean sound you want.

Next I thow on Abletons Reverb and hook the dry/wet upto a midi controller
Then I have a simple delay unit, with both the feedback and dry/wet hooked up to a midi controller. Suss out the settings that are right for your mix, but a delay on both L and R channels of 3 works for me.
I also include an auto filter which I hook the frequency up to a midi controller.

So just to recap, the vst.'s and effect,with their midi counterparts are:
1. Slayer, with Damp (shortens the length of the note)
2. Auto Filter, frequency (reducing frequency gives a bit more ambience and interacts well with the reverb)
3. Reverb, Dry/wet (increasing gives that Hall like ambience present in dub recordings)
4. Simple delay, Feedback (I use this to draw out the delay present in the Slayer vst. and so that it gives a nice presence when the midi has stopped)
Dry/wet, this allows me to control how much of the feedback comes through.

If anymore can be explained please let me know. I will hopefully make a video of this soon, as I'm eager to share...

Catchya Later,

Claude Van Mouse

verbatim
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:05 pm
Location: UK

Post by verbatim » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:16 pm

hmmmm cant really post any tips as im researching how to make that shuddering bass as well.

if you havent been there already http://www.dubstepforum.com/ has a lot of useful info.


oh and thanks for sharing
verbatim

Meef Chaloin
Posts: 2164
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:09 pm

Post by Meef Chaloin » Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:08 pm

the Dubscrolls also has loads of good practical information. http://www.interruptor.ch/dub.shtml

Im not really sure what you're asking...just tips of bass? Just deep subby bass? They're pretty easy to get the sound, its just getting the line right that's the big deal.

I used to love using Subtractor in Reason for making heavy deep subby basslines, but you can make them from pretty much any synth. Just get a strong filter over a sine/or whatever wave, adjust the ASDR to taste & just play with the filter, you might need to set the osc to the lowest octave it goes to.

What synths you using? This - http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... t=threeosc - is pretty adaquete, but seriously any will work, its like one of the most simple patches you can make.

Or perhaps you are playing bass?


Nice to see some dubbers on here :D

Check out versionist.com if you need some samples/somewhere to post your tunes for reviews/free songs/radio etc.

fadedbreaks
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:19 pm

Post by fadedbreaks » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:28 pm

Ha ha hello i just registered here to look at the tips and tricks and lo and behold you are here too! Thanks for these tips, i am struggling with bass and guitars too so they're invaluable!

subbasshead
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:30 am
Location: wellington, new zealand

Post by subbasshead » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:21 am

my favourite way of making dub basslines with LIVE is to use a bass guitar
through a moogerfooger filter (a real one, not the plugin) & a dbx 160
subharmonic synth plugged into a trace elliot amp with a 15" bass bin
The amp has a DI output but I also mic it wide - imho its the air moving
that makes subby bass FEEL subby
I guess if you are trying to emulate dub reggae bass all inside your laptop
you could mess with EQ & using subtle reverb on a synth patch, but getting
the right sound in the real world & then capturing it works for me....
FWIW that subharmonic synth is not something I have seen even vaguely
emulated with a plugin... We use them when mixing films as well & they
are the shit for making subwoofers do their thing on FX moments....
Mine is permanently patched on a send/return
BTW it always amuses me hearing new bands who use the word dub every time
they talk about their music & yet when i listen to their tunes they have
these weak 2 note basslines.... listen to scientist or king tubby or lee perry
& the basslines are the lead instruments & the feel in them is IMMENSE...
maybe a way to get wicked basslines is to get someone in who can play them?
its food for thought rather than a criticismm, i mean thats how the originators did it
:wink:

4ace
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:47 am
Location: NOLA
Contact:

Post by 4ace » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:12 pm

This won't help with basslines but i love dub and thought i'd mention dubstation by audiodamage.Simply the best dub delay i've ever used.Also good for other application's such as a simple delay unit for slap backs and such.
MacBook Pro 2.4 Ghz 2Gb
OS X.5.7 | MOTU Ultralite | Live 8 | Ableton Drum Machine's | Addictive Drums | Conectiv+ Torq | Ms. Pinky | AudioDamage

subbasshead
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:30 am
Location: wellington, new zealand

Post by subbasshead » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:14 pm

you should try a Roland Space Echo!
now THAT is the best delay for dub, in fact theres plenty of reggae/dub
songs named after it - augustus pablo - 555 etc
Again it only exists in the real world
I also bought DubDelay when it was released thinking it was an emulation
of a space echo when in fact it isnt, its an emulation of a bucket brigade delay
ie quite a different kettle of fish.... but apparently they are working on a version
of the space echo - if you ever see a real one for sale buy it immediately
they are fantastic! The 555 Chrous Echo or the 150 Space Echo
and its not just the tape delay part of them, they also have a great spring reverb
built in... and feedback beautifully!
but one of the nicest features is the big knob that swiches between tape
playback heads - somehow these are arranged to change beautifully between
quarter notes & triplets etc... combined with the pitch/tape speed knob these
machines are just so great & tuning their rhythmic delays by ear is the way
Having them perfectly in time is not necessarily what you want :wink:

annihilator.1
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:17 pm
Location: England

Post by annihilator.1 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:12 pm

i'll add Analog Delay by Smartelectronix & arcDev ETA 100 both have the pitched delay with tone & feedback.

john gordon
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:24 am
Location: Delaware

Post by john gordon » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:27 am

ohmboyz for me is the ultimate dub delay.i dont hear of too many people using it anymore and i cant figure that out.i think it blows away every other software delay effect for dub.my opinion....as for bass -call lee perry and ask him for some of his voodou.

DeadlyKungFu
Posts: 3603
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:26 pm

Post by DeadlyKungFu » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:19 am

Dub Station - Hooray!!

I've been working on a bass line for a reggae tune today, I've found:
- Leave bass and drums for later in the mix, they fill in the gaps
- bass should hit the root note on the '1'and follow the kick
- keep the bass simple (that doesn't mean boring)
- I really like to groove when the bass is just barely ahead of the beat


As for reggae guitar, I learned to play on the upbeat by focusing on playing the bass note on the '1' as a downstroke then hitting the chords on the upstroke, mostly the G-B-e strings, as I got the groove down I could leave out the bass note. Now I can play reggae grooves on the up or down beat, tons of fun once I got it. Also, a lot of reggae guitar is based on inversions, where the root note is on the high e string, so as you hit it on the upstroke the root note strikes first, Bob Marley uses a lot of those. Notice in this famous shot below
Image
That he has no D string on his guitar. The E and A strings are for bass, he just plays chords with G-B-e strings, mostly movable forms of D chord inversions.

Reggae piano can be done the same way, bass note on the left hand, hit the off beat chords with the right hand.

Gyro
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:40 am

Post by Gyro » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:38 am

john gordon wrote:ohmboyz for me is the ultimate dub delay.i dont hear of too many people using it anymore and i cant figure that out.
Hell yeah, was jamming wit this the other night, it was fenomenal, You could make a really good track just by messing with the delay, it just keeps on rolling.
Meef Chaoiln wrote:Im not really sure what you're asking...just tips of bass? Just deep subby bass? They're pretty easy to get the sound, its just getting the line right that's the big deal. I used to love using Subtractor in Reason for making heavy deep subby basslines, but you can make them from pretty much any synth. Just get a strong filter over a sine/or whatever wave, adjust the ASDR to taste & just play with the filter, you might need to set the osc to the lowest octave it goes to.

What synths you using? This - http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... t=threeosc - is pretty adaquete, but seriously any will work, its like one of the most simple patches you can make.

Or perhaps you are playing bass?


Nice to see some dubbers on here Very Happy
Hmm wasn't really asking for tips on bass, was hoping people would come out to share there tips for making dub i.e. what vst.'s they use and how they use em, but also what they like about a good dub track (maybe that should be another thread). But your tips well appreciated, in fact it made me realise that the reason I'm probably not getting the sound I want is because I'm using crappy computer speakers rather than monitors, so I can't really register where the bass is at.
I might record some proper bass lines, as that seems to get a nicer sound, but I'm wondering how far I can push the bassline sound by using synths.

For bass I've just been using the TAU (not the pro version) and a filter knocking out all the high end. I just wanna add some color to my bassline, and to do that I wanna include some of the middle frequency, then it starts to sound a little messier... Does anyone have any tips for eqing a bass?

DeadlyKungfu- And cheers for the guitaring tips... I've been going to reggae gigs for ages, but only recently been watching the guitarists closely, hearing someone put down some good chops live is awesome... p.s. Saw Matisyahu last night, anyone here down with him? Freaking amazing Jewish Hasidic reggae artist, does some damn good minimalistic techno beat boxing as well...

Kewl, tanx to all you peeps for the tips. As soon as I get into the studio end of week I'm going to give some of this stuff a shot, and maybe have some ideas and hopefully a track to Share :D

Peace and Light,

Claude Van Mouse

DeadlyKungFu
Posts: 3603
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:26 pm

Post by DeadlyKungFu » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:12 am

Gyro wrote:Saw Matisyahu last night, anyone here down with him? Freaking amazing Jewish Hasidic reggae artist, does some damn good minimalistic techno beat boxing as well...
I've seen him on TV over the years, always smooth on stage and in the interview, nice guy, smooth toaster. His bio is interesting. Worth checking out.

This site:
http://www.versionist.com/
Has some great reggae samples.

Meef Chaloin
Posts: 2164
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:09 pm

Post by Meef Chaloin » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:30 am

Gyro wrote:I wish I had some good tips for getting that deep Dub bassline, but I'm struggling with it myself.
Gyro wrote:Hmm wasn't really asking for tips on bass

ok sorry, i misunderstood.

but yeah www.versionist.com is a great resource, databases of record labels, clubs, promoters etc, samples, & some pretty amazing free tunes.

Yeah ive heard of matis for a while, his stuff's pretty cool, nice to see him standing up to the rasta community as well, i gather that he's creating some controversy among some circles.

Thats a good tip about the guitar, ive also recently been told that by someone who was talking about the rolling stones guitarist (cant remember his name at the mo). Also thanks for pointing it out, ive never noticed that on that picture.

I use all sorts of fx & stuff really, depends entirely on the song. Glaceverb, Analog Delay (from Dub Scrolls), & autofilter in to reverb are common for my use.

Meef Chaloin
Posts: 2164
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:09 pm

Post by Meef Chaloin » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:30 am

DeadlyKungFu wrote:This site:
http://www.versionist.com/
Has some great reggae samples.
are you a member Deadly? whats your nick?

DeadlyKungFu
Posts: 3603
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:26 pm

Post by DeadlyKungFu » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:42 pm

Meef Chaloin wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote:This site:
http://www.versionist.com/
Has some great reggae samples.
are you a member Deadly? whats your nick?
Nope, this is the only place I haunt. I change between hip hop, reggae and techno, I've just been pushing to finish a reggae track and I've been lucky to have a bass guitar loaned to me for a while, so I'm all stoked on writing reggae bass lines. I had a hard time pulling the song together until I found some vocals labeled as being in the key of A, same as my reggae tune. I dropped in the vocals and the whole thing came together.

Re: The Stones, I've heard Keith Richards say that he 'ripped off everything Chuck Berry ever did'.

For reggae, can't forget the Vox Wah guitar pedal, that into a delay. :D

Post Reply