When you play our Live with Ableton Live, and presume you have a multi i/o soundcard to take care of possible external equipment, do you still use a [small] analogue mixer before going into the venues PA or are you going straight form your audiocard into the PA ?
For either, any specific reason ?
Playing Live : Mixer, yes or no ...
Playing Live : Mixer, yes or no ...
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
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Per Boysen
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I used to do that before, but now I'm tired of dragging heavy gear around. I have a rack with some other hardware execpt for the mixer, picture at http://www.looproom.com/livelooping.php. It's just too heavy.
Now I want to do gigs with only a laptop and instrument (recording clips on the fly into Live). The problem with my recent P3 700 MHz laptop is an audiable latency with the M-Audiophile USB interface. So I have actually concidered using my mic preamp as mixer to split the acoustic instrument signal into laptop/Ableton and directly to the house PA. If I can find a faster laptop (less latency) in the future I would like to monitor thorugh Live instead and only send one stereo output into the house PA.
When I play with other musicians and "laptoppers" I use to bring a mixer only if there will not be an experienced backline engineer (which tends to be the usual setting
Now I want to do gigs with only a laptop and instrument (recording clips on the fly into Live). The problem with my recent P3 700 MHz laptop is an audiable latency with the M-Audiophile USB interface. So I have actually concidered using my mic preamp as mixer to split the acoustic instrument signal into laptop/Ableton and directly to the house PA. If I can find a faster laptop (less latency) in the future I would like to monitor thorugh Live instead and only send one stereo output into the house PA.
When I play with other musicians and "laptoppers" I use to bring a mixer only if there will not be an experienced backline engineer (which tends to be the usual setting
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Guest
no mixer for me--the RME multiface has a solid software mixer, but basically, I'm just sending Live's master out to my two pa speakers, and I set my output levels with the RME, and usually don't have to change them for the rest of the show. TO me a mixer would be redundant and pointless, but i could see how some groups might need a mixer, or that some people might need the effects from a mixer.
PB: sorry to say but your idea with splitting the signal will cause heinous sounds that are flangy and phasey as you will hear your latency live with the direct signal going to the pa, and live's coming in a bit behind it. Looks like you need to upgrade to a P4 2.? and a non-usb sound card (RME, firewire, etc.) to get your latency under 10 ms coming out of live (that means 5ms coming into live)
PB: sorry to say but your idea with splitting the signal will cause heinous sounds that are flangy and phasey as you will hear your latency live with the direct signal going to the pa, and live's coming in a bit behind it. Looks like you need to upgrade to a P4 2.? and a non-usb sound card (RME, firewire, etc.) to get your latency under 10 ms coming out of live (that means 5ms coming into live)
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Per Boysen
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If I should select the "Monitor through Live" in the preferances, yes - but I don't have to do that!Anonymous wrote:PB: sorry to say but your idea with splitting the signal will cause heinous sounds that are flangy and phasey...
Last edited by Per Boysen on Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i have been using a small mixer when performing live.
quickly, a few reasons why:
- since ableton seems to runs somewhat 'hot' in terms of volume, i am able to turn the bus and master out down
to allow for some headroom, to avoid clipping or dist coming out of the soundcard,
yet make up for it by boosting either the trim or the actual line levels on the mixer
- i can drop in/push up the highs, mids, and lows at will. also, in terms of volume, i think that most soundpersons
tend to plug you in and leave you alone in most club settings, and i like to be
able to control the volume somewhat all depending...to ease off in some situations, or to pummel.
- although arguable, i like the analogue....ummm.... warmth? something?
the added "something" that comes from hearing the sound through analog equip
- of course, the ability to easily use hardware effects, etc
of course, just my tastes...
wm
quickly, a few reasons why:
- since ableton seems to runs somewhat 'hot' in terms of volume, i am able to turn the bus and master out down
to allow for some headroom, to avoid clipping or dist coming out of the soundcard,
yet make up for it by boosting either the trim or the actual line levels on the mixer
- i can drop in/push up the highs, mids, and lows at will. also, in terms of volume, i think that most soundpersons
tend to plug you in and leave you alone in most club settings, and i like to be
able to control the volume somewhat all depending...to ease off in some situations, or to pummel.
- although arguable, i like the analogue....ummm.... warmth? something?
the added "something" that comes from hearing the sound through analog equip
- of course, the ability to easily use hardware effects, etc
of course, just my tastes...
wm
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Guest
but then how will you hear your loops, Live effects, etc.---to hear the master out, yous gots to monitor throught live....Per Boysen wrote:But I don't have to tick the "Monitor through Live" in the preferances!Anonymous wrote:PB: sorry to say but your idea with splitting the signal will cause heinous sounds that are flangy and phasey...
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Per Boysen
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Eh, well... noAnonymous wrote:but then how will you hear your loops, Live effects, etc.---to hear the master out, yous gots to monitor throught live....Per Boysen wrote:But I don't have to tick the "Monitor through Live" in the preferances!Anonymous wrote:PB: sorry to say but your idea with splitting the signal will cause heinous sounds that are flangy and phasey...
Not selecting "monitor through live" will only mute my audio input from the master output. I just checked it out here to be safe. But in the future I would love to have a low latency audio interface and run my saxophone, guitar and mic all though Live! Would be cool to play live through software plug-ins 
I find it helpful to use an analog mixer even if I'm just running my laptop for a live set. For several reasons:
A) My two mixers both have XLR outputs which my sound card/laptop do not. This is standard, at least here in the U.S., at most venues and saves the trouble of having to use DIs to get to the main sound board. Especially when I've heard the extra line noise that can come from venue supplied DI boxes...
B) You never know what the venue is going to have sound-wise, but most places can handle either a L-R XLR or L-R 1/4" output from a mixer. Not all laptops or external sound cards have these kind of outputs.
C) It's a lot easier (of course this depends on the mixer you have and it's available features) to master control the sound output (ie. level, EQ, external effects send/return, etc.) with a mixer on your end. Especially if the venue's sound tech isn't going to monitor this for you; which has basically been the case at any gig I can remember playing.
D) I *love* using my Allen & Heath Xone:62 mixer because of the nice built in filters!
If you can pick up a small mixer, it's always a good investment in my opinion for bringing to a live gig.
-Ben
A) My two mixers both have XLR outputs which my sound card/laptop do not. This is standard, at least here in the U.S., at most venues and saves the trouble of having to use DIs to get to the main sound board. Especially when I've heard the extra line noise that can come from venue supplied DI boxes...
B) You never know what the venue is going to have sound-wise, but most places can handle either a L-R XLR or L-R 1/4" output from a mixer. Not all laptops or external sound cards have these kind of outputs.
C) It's a lot easier (of course this depends on the mixer you have and it's available features) to master control the sound output (ie. level, EQ, external effects send/return, etc.) with a mixer on your end. Especially if the venue's sound tech isn't going to monitor this for you; which has basically been the case at any gig I can remember playing.
D) I *love* using my Allen & Heath Xone:62 mixer because of the nice built in filters!
If you can pick up a small mixer, it's always a good investment in my opinion for bringing to a live gig.
-Ben
vs.I *love* using my Allen & Heath Xone:62 mixer
Love your sense for understatement ...lol ... rest assured I've put out a contract on your head ... that mixer will be mine.If you can pick up a small mixer
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
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Guest
mackie LM3204
I use a mackie LM3204 Mixer. it's a 32channel stereo line mixer.
you can put it into a rack and it'll do it's job perfectly. I have a 26 channel DA/AD thing (cant recall the name) wich is wired to the mixer.
it's perfect for gigs! you can route the drums/synths or other stuff to different AUX output.
I'm playing with a band and my experience is that most mixers underestimate what you can do with live. so I just tell them that on channel 1-2 you send drums on channel 3-4 you send the synths and so on... the mixers usually get it and treat you with enough volume
2 channels aren't enough to compete with a real bass/guitar/singer on stage... well I think a mixer is a must if you play along with organic instruments! otherwhise I don't see the point in an analogue mixer..
it's a good thing, also for the monitoring part!
you can put it into a rack and it'll do it's job perfectly. I have a 26 channel DA/AD thing (cant recall the name) wich is wired to the mixer.
it's perfect for gigs! you can route the drums/synths or other stuff to different AUX output.
I'm playing with a band and my experience is that most mixers underestimate what you can do with live. so I just tell them that on channel 1-2 you send drums on channel 3-4 you send the synths and so on... the mixers usually get it and treat you with enough volume
2 channels aren't enough to compete with a real bass/guitar/singer on stage... well I think a mixer is a must if you play along with organic instruments! otherwhise I don't see the point in an analogue mixer..
it's a good thing, also for the monitoring part!
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Guest
hey,
For my purposes I prefer to have a small mixer on stage... that way I can have two laptops, an fx unit, and a md or cd player under my control. I'm heading overseas to do a show in december and I wanted to keep my set-up pretty small... so I purchased a small mixer, the behringer 1002. I chose it because it can be battery powered and I hope to eliminate some of the pain of voltage transformer issues. Unfortunately the quality of the sound coming out of it is... strange. It seems to boost some mid frequencies and I'm a little bummed as the mixer's eq doesn't quite compensate. guess I'll be adding an eq plug-in at Live's output on my one powerbook in the hopes of compensating.
Anyway... enough about that... so here's a crazy idea I had. In the hopes of leaving my lexicon mpx-100 at home... What if I use a Live input (monitored through live) and an additional Live send on my Live-dedicated powerbook, as an fx unit for my other laptop? So I would have my normal Live set going on my g4 pb, but it would also be doing double duty as an fx processor for my other powerbook (running Unity). Bad idea? Somebody stop me if I'm insane! I just don't want to haul my mpx-100 overseas for the sole purpose of using it's really nice 5.6 second delay (hell I might just forego the delay anyway)
Thanks!
scotty
p.s. info about the festival I'll play at can be found here
www.iwtbf.org
For my purposes I prefer to have a small mixer on stage... that way I can have two laptops, an fx unit, and a md or cd player under my control. I'm heading overseas to do a show in december and I wanted to keep my set-up pretty small... so I purchased a small mixer, the behringer 1002. I chose it because it can be battery powered and I hope to eliminate some of the pain of voltage transformer issues. Unfortunately the quality of the sound coming out of it is... strange. It seems to boost some mid frequencies and I'm a little bummed as the mixer's eq doesn't quite compensate. guess I'll be adding an eq plug-in at Live's output on my one powerbook in the hopes of compensating.
Anyway... enough about that... so here's a crazy idea I had. In the hopes of leaving my lexicon mpx-100 at home... What if I use a Live input (monitored through live) and an additional Live send on my Live-dedicated powerbook, as an fx unit for my other laptop? So I would have my normal Live set going on my g4 pb, but it would also be doing double duty as an fx processor for my other powerbook (running Unity). Bad idea? Somebody stop me if I'm insane! I just don't want to haul my mpx-100 overseas for the sole purpose of using it's really nice 5.6 second delay (hell I might just forego the delay anyway)
Thanks!
scotty
p.s. info about the festival I'll play at can be found here
www.iwtbf.org