getting a better mixdown

somejerk · Post by **somejerk** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:43 pm

i am wondering if anyone else out there finds themselves unsatisfied with the mixdown of a track in Live 5.

for example, i have a track, sounds great, everything sounds eq'd and loud well enough, volume bar is about to hit red but doesn't. when i mix it down and bring it into an audio editor, the volume appears to be below zero db.

another beatmaker told me that different programs have different headrooms and that live's may be lower than my audio editor. this makes some sense.

so my question to you all, do you have any tricks to getting a better "final" mixdown in live by adding compression or eq on the master channel (or similar tricks) or do you bring your mixdowns into another audio editor and use their effects?

any feedback or help would be much appreciated!

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:07 pm

brace yourself, as soon as you mention 'headroom' here you usually get a barrage of people defending live.

Apparently its the same as every other sequencer but i would agree that live does seem to overload far too easily. Apparently the maths & code are basically the same as cubase/logic etc (32bit floating or something) but there's definitely something amiss.

you could just have the master fader turned down a few notches, i would prefer to do any limiting in a audio editor so i generally never have the master fader set to 0db. export & normalise or do whatever you would normally do to a track after.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:46 pm

A good mixdown doesn't really have much to do with the master channel, provided you aren't clipping. I compared the summing engines in Lvie with SX3, and the results were identical. Anyway, here's my take on mixdowns, copied from something I wrote on another forum this AM:

This is the ever elusive "how do I get that pro sound" that a lot people wonder about. Mainly it's down to practice and having a decent monitoring set up (which includes a somewhat treated room IMO). Listening to you tune, I agree the main issues aren't the mix per se, but the samples and sounds you use. You say you get the individual tracks sounding fine, but can't nail the mix. I have to respectfully disagree. If you have the individual sounds sorted, the track will usually mix and master itself (well, usually).

I think the key to having a great sounding end result, is to have a great sounding "beginning". You need to start the process of writing a tune always thinking about the overall quality of the tune. IE, you need to have great sounding samples, and well recorded synths/instruments. Very hard to ADD quality where there is none. And I'm just speaking generally here for everyone's benefit, not saying you don't have great sounds etc.

Try taking off ALL of the individual tracks' dynamics processing (EQ, limiting, compression) on this one. Make a back up of the project, then just get rid of all your plug ins except those critical to the sound (delays chorus, etc). Now try and do the mixdown, but force yourself to NOT use any dynamics processing. Get the mix as best you can, then have a go at mastering. Compare the two versions, and see if you don't have more life in the tune.

A lot of times people just add too much dynamics processing, and it sucks the life out of sounds when you combine them in a mix. It makes it flat and dull sounding as you report. If you feel the new version is better, but a few parts are a bit too "loose" or "peaky", then go back and try a LITTLE bit of compression or EQ on just a FEW parts. Recompare with the clean version. If it sounds better, cool, if it sounds flat again, you over did it.

I think it's better to try and get the mix 100% without any plug is first, as onyl then will you typically know what and where to apply dynamics control.

Just my $.02 though.

somejerk · Post by **somejerk** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:33 pm

thanks. i have actually been using higher quality samples as of late realizing that you can't build gold from shit, for lack of a more clever phrase.

i guess i should rephrase my question. why is it that my tracks sound exactly how i want them in live, and then once they are mixed down and played via winamp or an audio editor, the volume is much lower and clearly below zero db? my master fader is all the way to zero, so it's definetly not that.

thanks again.

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:08 am

Tarekith wrote:A good mixdown doesn't really have much to do with the master channel, provided you aren't clipping. I compared the summing engines in Lvie with SX3, and the results were identical. Anyway, here's my take on mixdowns, copied from something I wrote on another forum this AM:

This is the ever elusive "how do I get that pro sound" that a lot people wonder about. Mainly it's down to practice and having a decent monitoring set up (which includes a somewhat treated room IMO). Listening to you tune, I agree the main issues aren't the mix per se, but the samples and sounds you use. You say you get the individual tracks sounding fine, but can't nail the mix. I have to respectfully disagree. If you have the individual sounds sorted, the track will usually mix and master itself (well, usually).

I think the key to having a great sounding end result, is to have a great sounding "beginning". You need to start the process of writing a tune always thinking about the overall quality of the tune. IE, you need to have great sounding samples, and well recorded synths/instruments. Very hard to ADD quality where there is none. And I'm just speaking generally here for everyone's benefit, not saying you don't have great sounds etc.

Try taking off ALL of the individual tracks' dynamics processing (EQ, limiting, compression) on this one. Make a back up of the project, then just get rid of all your plug ins except those critical to the sound (delays chorus, etc). Now try and do the mixdown, but force yourself to NOT use any dynamics processing. Get the mix as best you can, then have a go at mastering. Compare the two versions, and see if you don't have more life in the tune.

A lot of times people just add too much dynamics processing, and it sucks the life out of sounds when you combine them in a mix. It makes it flat and dull sounding as you report. If you feel the new version is better, but a few parts are a bit too "loose" or "peaky", then go back and try a LITTLE bit of compression or EQ on just a FEW parts. Recompare with the clean version. If it sounds better, cool, if it sounds flat again, you over did it.

I think it's better to try and get the mix 100% without any plug is first, as onyl then will you typically know what and where to apply dynamics control.

Just my $.02 though.

wow that's actually great advice.

i myself have been guilty of overdoing processing. maybe that's why i end up not being TOO happy with my mixdowns.

thanks for this

somejerk · Post by **somejerk** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:29 pm

good advice. i always read that, but i suppose i should practice it.

ratchit · Post by **ratchit** » Sat May 14, 2011 8:30 am

If your mixes sound good in live then right before you export them I would use a limiter on the master and get it about -3dB below the quietest parts so that its triggered the whole time this will get your mix to sound louder when you export it. whats happening is if your exporting to say 24 bit the only time its actually using 24 bit is when the wave file is from the top all the way to the bottom and when its not your using less then the full bit rate and why it does not sound loud enough.

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Sat May 14, 2011 9:30 am

Nice necrobump!

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat May 14, 2011 2:16 pm

Impressive.

Kent_in_CO · Post by **Kent_in_CO** » Sat May 14, 2011 5:03 pm

Well it's nearly five years later, but Tarekith's advice still rings true. The cool thing is that this approach is also way more conducive to actually FINISHING a track. And working with the natural dynamics of the parts and mixing them together without a shitload of EQ/compression tends to give a more live, organic sound too. It's a win-win.

I use the "do no harm" approach to EQ/Comp. If something stands out as sounding like crap after dialing those initial levels in, I go through and address those issues. For example, if a vocal or guitar part is piercing, it might call for a surgical EQ....or as Tarekith said, if a part is peaking too much, it might be time to bust out a compressor. You've gotta know how to identify and fix those problem areas; that's part of what creates a less polished sound. But overall, less is more. And that's good news, because then you can finish the damn thing and move on!

Kent // SEVEN7H WAVE // http://www.seven7hwave.com

kingofficial · Post by **kingofficial** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:07 am

all great tips here! I'm just now getting the hang of ableton, & i'm looking to have my mixes superb. So this is very helpful . Thanks!

getting a better mixdown

getting a better mixdown

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