Live as a guitar phrase looper in realtime??

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nappypastel

Live as a guitar phrase looper in realtime??

Post by nappypastel » Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:52 pm

Ok this is what I want to do.
I want to use Live like a lexicon jamman or an eletrix repeater.
On the fly make guitar loops that play back until stopped, overdub
more guitar over the existing loops and have it sync to a tempo from cubase, groove agent or any other device that is set to a specific time.
Can this be done?? I own live 3 and a Behringer fcb 1010 midi foot controller. I would love to not have to spend another $700 or $800
on the jamman or repeater.
I have a Boss Giga Delay that loops very well, but it cannot sync to the computer or any other device so my loops only stay in time for a little while.
Any help, tips, tricks or anything would be awesome.
Thanks a 1,000,000.
Nappy.

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:23 pm

You can use it to capture clips/loops live and trigger them from the FCB, you can also trigger pre-made loops/rythyms etc from the same but you can't overdub into a clip.

If you are on PC checkout www.elogoxa.net for Elottronix XL which can be inserted on sends or inserted on tracks as a tempo synced live looper within live.

It would be great to have things like overdub/reverse/multiply/etc built into live for use on clipped takes from live playing but we can't at the moment and most people seem to live in the land of all loops being assembled ahead of a "gig" it seems.

If you're on the PC try the above, it will get you where you want pretty much.

longjohns
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Location: seattle

Post by longjohns » Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:59 pm

i think it's possible to at least partially achieve this, but it would involve some pre-planning and layout of your midi controller assignments.

when recording clips, if you trigger the clip slot while it is recording, it will begin looped playback when it reaches the next quantize point. it would be really easy if you set quantize to 1 bar or longer, as you could hit the clip slot button at any time after recording had started. the smaller the quantize increment, the smaller a window of opportunity you would have to hit your triggers.

the only problem is that as soon as it starts looping, you will not hear input on that track any longer. so to continue hearing your live playing, you will need to switch to another track. so you could have a set configured with a number of input tracks, but only turn on monitoring one at a time, as you fill the previous ones with running loops. i'd imagine you would assign your foot controller to clip slots on each track, and also to the clip record enable buttons for each track (which will trigger monitoring on the tracks when selected)

Sonarcade
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Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

Post by Sonarcade » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:26 pm

would this setup be possible if live was used as a rewire slave to Cubase SX? If so how would I route the audio so Live can loop the live recorded phrases? I'm also guessing that I can't place multiple punch in-out markers in Live so I can play the guitar chords for say a verse once and then have it loop until I play the chorus for one round, etc...

guest2

Post subject: Live as a guitar phrase looper in realtime??

Post by guest2 » Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:03 am

Hi, I'm new to this forum and to Live. I'm interested in using Live along these lines as well, doing live looping of myself on guitar and of a vocalist, but also using some prepared loops to add in on the fly.

I'm just learning to use Live, so I might be missing something, but it seems it would be easier if it were possible to map midi controllers to switch _incrementally_ between the available tracks, then have controllers to arm & launch/trigger the _currently_ selected track. Otherwise, you have to setup individual controllers for each of these functions on _each_ track - seems wasteful since my foot controller only has 10 switches. Any suggestions?

thx,
Michael

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:17 am

If you are on PC checkout www.elogoxa.net for Elottronix XL. Stick it on some sends and assign footpedals in different banks to them from different tracks/inputs. It syncs, overdubs and has variable feedback.

There are various tricks that can be used in the scenario you want but many leave you banging your head against a wall because they arent quuuuiiiite there. Use Live for what is is good at and use Elottronix unnless you anticipate taking up tap-dancing and want to spen your time ending up playing Live like a game of chess.

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:58 pm

Diital Performer has a great thing called Polar, that works as an Electrix Repeater. No latency cos' it records into RAM. As many "passes" as you want, panning on the fly etc. really cool. BUT it's not easy at all to use it together with Live. Let's say a no go.

white rainbow adam

live loopers

Post by white rainbow adam » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:10 am

any vst thats like this for MACS? i need/want to do this as well

Per Boysen
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:11 pm
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Contact:

Post by Per Boysen » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:12 am

longjohns wrote:i'd imagine you would assign your foot controller to clip slots on each track, and also to the clip record enable buttons for each track (which will trigger monitoring on the tracks when selected)
Exactly, longjohns! I use to keep only one track for monitoring my live playing (soundcard chosed for "input" and the little microphone icon slected). All other tracks are not monitoring the input signal, but for recording. I use a midi foot controller with buttons mapped to (1) record enable tracks and (2) select scenes. Let's say I selecet scene 2 (second horizontal row of clip slots); this will have any empty slot on the record enabled track to start recording my live playing (if track input is set to the soundcard input I plugged my instrument into).

The reason I have chosen to use the "select scene" command to toggle clip recording is that it would require way too many pedal buttons to address every clip slot individually. Althoug that would have been the best solution if I only had a hardware floor board with at least 5 x 5 buttons (5 tracks, 5 scenes. Sufficient for my needs). By adressing the scenes I don't need 25 buttons, but can get around with 10. Ten buttons is what one bank of my controller, FCB1010, offers.
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
http://www.perboysen.com

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:59 am

looplex, included free with the MDA vst pack works like a non-synced live looper. You can loop with overdubbing and variable feedback for up to 200 seconds. No MIDI sync, but works just as well as my looper pedals and responds reasonably well to midi control (sometimes it can be a little fiddley.)

paulc
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Location: Portland, OR

Post by paulc » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:48 pm

I've been using an Electrix Repeater slaved to live's midi clock to capture my bass loops... then I bounce them up into live and the real fun begins... When I dont have the repeater around I just set live to quantize at 4 or 8 bars, hit the clip record button and play the loop (while monitoring my input via the headphones) then when its all captured and sounding good in the headphones i fade it into the mains... it works pretty well IF you know exactly what you want to play...


-- Paul

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:09 pm

...or you could set live's quantize to "bar", then use a midi footcontroller (FCB 1010) to start and stop loop recording whenever you want, then you can repeat over and over and have loops at whatever length you want--you might not really need that repeater...

Guest

Delays on Live sends

Post by Guest » Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:22 am

Put a long wet delay on a Live send and that is a tempo-sync'ed phrase repeater.

If I go "strum, strum, strum, strum" that is the same as if I go "strum" and a delay goes "strum, strum, strum" in response at the right tempo. Set the delay's feedback so you hear three "echoes" after each strum and make it wet so they don't fade out as they go and it is like three extra right hands following your every strum in perfect time. Works the same if you want to stretch it out to really long times so that you play 8 bars and then hear those 8 bars again and again.

As the delay repeats your original phrase, you play a second part along with it. Wall of guitars.

It's natural to think "I'll record a two-bar loop and then repeat it" but if your delays are all locked to tempo (like Live's delays) then you don't have to do math to get the perfect delay setting that turns what's in your hands into what's in your head.

Of course you can use multiple sends or use insert effects as well. Hematohm by OhmForce is a great delay plug if you want to go beyond Live's built-in stuff in this kind of application.

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:18 pm

..or just do what I said and use a midi foot controller and have global quantize set to bar and record as many loops on as many tracks at as many different lengths as you want--the delay thing is okay, but boss guitar pedals can do that. Live is capable of much more than any hardware pedals or loopers, you just need a foot controller and an intelligent set layout. Having each seperate instrument/phrase on a seperate live track offers much more flexibility in terms or effects, composition, routing to sends, crossfading, and on-the-fly arrangement than using a delay, or pre-determined loop length, sound-on-sound loops, or hardware.

Ryan

radder

Live is a looper!

Post by radder » Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:46 pm

This is actually the reason why I chose Live... to do what you're talking about.

It's very important when using the following method to set the global quantize to "bar" and make sure clips default to "trigger" and not "toggle" mode.

Assuming your board has 2 rows of 5 switches, you could set up the top row of footswitches to trigger the clips in five different tracks, and the bottom row can be assigned to those tracks' "stop clip" button. (not remembering the proper name for it - it's got a square in it and it's below your bottom-most scene (horizontal row of clips)).

Then if you are using something like an FCB-1010 you could set up a second patch to do the arming and monitoring for those tracks.

Now, the only problem you'll have is that there's no way to delete a clip via MIDI. I play keyboard so it's easier for me to reach down and use the mouse and computer keyboard to select and delete clips that are no longer playing so I can record new ones.

Anyone have improvements on this technique?

radder

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