Slaving Ableton to a Human Drummer?

Share your Ableton Live secrets here
Jinsai
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:05 pm

The chromatic scales idea is interesting...

Post by Jinsai » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:55 am

That would actually be an interesting way of going about it... I hadn't really considered that... I was thinking for awhile about using a Qwerty Midi Controller to play different sections split into zones in my sampler and transcribe the parts into typeable words... but it just became too much of a headache... In the end, if this method doesn't work, I think I'll just havbe him wear a clicktrack and assign the mod wheel on my controller to control the BPM... I dunno... I have no money for a Roland TMC-6 + Midi triggers... frustrating.

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:23 am

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %3AIT&rd=1

The Alesis D4 is something that you may be lucky enough to find cheaply
2nd hand depending on where you live and a little luck.

Also search up information on using piezo speakers as triggers.

FutureMan's Drumitar
http://www.flecktones.com/the_guys/futch.asp
http://www.orgsites.com/fl/madonia-ucf/
http://www.zendrum.com/resource-site/futch.htm
http://www.zendrum.com/history.html
http://home.epix.net/~iracerc/eps.html

-Ben

bedhead
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:58 am

Some theories,possible solutions....

Post by bedhead » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:30 am

'ddrum' electronic drums best selling (for a long while) higher end drum trigger/pad brain is what you are looking for.

I believe it has midi in/out/thru.

The thing is u outfit yer drummer with ddrum triggers or dual zone pads(pads that are drummerlike sensitive) and the brain adheres to ANY tempos or fluctuations he/she plays, plus u can savvily trigger one shots drum sounds(like have the drummers snare pumping out 808 snare sounds from his accoustic snare,the drawback being that if u playing a small venue then yer drummer will hafta modify his technique somewhat if hes using the drum triggers , i would suggest getting pads)out of Live as well as just use the accoustic drums as is or make a hybrid of the 2. There is a routing configuration that i cant comment on other than syncing the ddrum brain with Live,in theory,it should work.

The drummer must be outfitted with a dedicated start/stopswitch trigger of some sort (it can be a pad,footswitch,key board{that would be too cumbersome}. He will be and should have some type of monitor reference with a headphone monitor driver(like a redbox for headphones). I would suggest in-ear monitors as the diver/amp is already there. I believe that thru the headphone-monitor,the brain,and live u can generate a click reference that yer drummer can be in charge of.

Im a drummer and use Live and i dont use that method.

That method outline is from talking with Marylin Manson's Ginger Fish and his tech.

Im planning a workable live concert solution, ive tested some shit out for friends at private parties. There was ALOT of planning involved. As it stands because i will be touring and funds are scarce and i will be at the mercy of the club soundman.

What i am planning is basically(as suggested in an earlier post) having SOME type of rythmic reference to hook on to. Im gonna attempt 2 find a way (which i think i can do in Live theory) to split or funnel a click(not strictly the onboard Live click) into my monitor for cues(depending on the song,as i want an improv feel-its a Drum'n'Bass project),or minor count offs if there is a break in the song. Oh and hopefully ill be running Live off a laptop,set up near me so i can 'play' Live when i need a break.

Any how the answer to yer query is..........ddrum. Its a pretty penny to purchase but u will have it forever-a keeper-if u will. When i figure out my live show and am ready 2 play ill post again with my findings.

If u want pls check www.bands411.com/bedhead

It features a track(until im finished recording) of live drumming into Ableton. The only drum loop that i used is a traditional Amen breakbeat. I play everything else. My gear specs are on the site.


I hope this helps because, this is the future of future of music...................................................let me know what happens bro.....................sincerely....bedhead................................

"Culture? I believe culture doesnt even exist anymore dont you think?"-David Bowie

Mbazzy
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Post by Mbazzy » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:47 am

Seen this : http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1392

Sonicstate links to the wrong company though, has to be http://www.ploytec.com/
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de

montrealbreaks

Post by montrealbreaks » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:24 pm

Mbazzy wrote:Seen this : http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1392

Sonicstate links to the wrong company though, has to be http://www.ploytec.com/
Neato. Cheap too.

L8er
Montrealbreaks

Jinsai
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:05 pm

Thank you bedhead

Post by Jinsai » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:25 pm

Your advice has been very helpful. I need to look into the Ddrum brains (I was already going to get the triggers from them) because I love Clavia in general, and I ordinarily hate all things Roland... I just need a job... ugg... if only my drummer was into dropping a thousand dollars on getting his rig to speak more directly to mine. There seem to be alot more options out there than I first anticipate there would be. Very encouraging... I'm sure one of these has to work... Mbazzy, I took a look at the midi click foot send and I'd like to pick one of those up... any idea on how much they cost? Arrgg.. I gotta get to class.. and yes Bedhead, I'd be interested in checking out the music you do (first I need to get DSL at my place... can't download music onto school library computers).. especially if you work out that approach... I'd be very interseted in checking you out live (if you're in the LA area) This is the future of music... or at least its part of it. Oh well... talk to you all later.

Mbazzy
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Post by Mbazzy » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:29 pm

80euro/100$
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de

ducktail
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:17 am
Location: Chicago

Post by ducktail » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:59 am

Voayager One Beat Extractor. Send it a submix of the drummer and it generates midi clock. Works great if you have an absolute monster drummer.

Nerf

Jinsai
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:05 pm

Voyager One

Post by Jinsai » Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:38 am

I'm very interested in that Red Sounds Voyager One Beat Extractor you brought up.. I tried to look into it more but the Musician's Friend website said that it was Out of Print, and the Red Sounds website wouldn't load. Is the company out of business?
I found some used models on the net for around 100 bucks... if this can do what I want it to it would be well worth the $100...
Can you tell me anything more about it or link me to a site that can?
thanks

ducktail
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Post by ducktail » Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:00 pm


radder
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InTime looks OK to me (if you got the cheddar)

Post by radder » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:30 am

If you have enough drum triggers (and cashflow :wink: ) it looks like that InTime program is the shizzle.

You can map a trigger for tap-tempo and another trigger to switch on and off the "tempo following" feature.

So if the drummer wants to get freaky and doesn't want it to throw off the tracking, they could. They could also tap a quick 4 quarter notes on the "tap tempo" trigger and then turn the "tempo following" off when they wanted to "jump instantly" to a new tempo.

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:36 am

I emailed the Voyager people....

Mr-Yellow wrote:

Does it deal well with sudden tempo changes and choppy-changey music?

-Ben

Hi,
In a word, no.

Our software was designed for dance music and DJ styles so traditionally
this has regular beats and smooth, slow tempo changes.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Mark

montrealbreaks
Posts: 995
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Location: Montreal Canada

Post by montrealbreaks » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:14 am

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Last edited by montrealbreaks on Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jinsai
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:05 pm

I think I'll just have to save up the money...

Post by Jinsai » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:26 am

If the guys from Red Sounds say that its not going to work for it.... I guess I can assume theyre right :?
I don't know.. this is all a big headache.... It seems like I should just save up for the Roland TMC-6 (which is actually what the guys who developed the In Time Program suggested) and get a couple of Ddrum triggers...
I looked into the Ddrum Brain boxx and although I love Clavia and certainly dig their gear more than Roland, I just don't have the money for that... (not to mention that outside of this application I doubt I would have any other uses for it)...
I don't know... In the end, 350 bucks isn't that much to blow on gear... I wish the program didn't cost 119 bucks... but I'm sure if it doesn't work for what I need it for, I can apply it some other way... I'm sure I need a Trigger to Midi converter anyway...
I don't know... Everything costs so much money :(
I'm depressed... I guess I can just sell a bunch of CDs to Amoeba (after copying them to my harddrive as Mp3s....)
Ug.
But thank you everyone... and if anyone knows why I shouldn't spend the money on either the TMC-6 or the In Time program from any bad experiences regarding either, please let me know....

montrealbreaks
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Post by montrealbreaks » Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:38 am

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Last edited by montrealbreaks on Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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