Help with solid house beats

johnashby · Post by **johnashby** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:27 pm

ok so im new here and new to production, and im sure this has been asked alot over some time and ive posted this on distortedrecords.co.uk - housemusicproducer.com etc but...still need help...

i would prefer to programme my beats but how do i get the type of beat and feel like here...

http://preview.traxsource.com/files/pre ... 034-1p.mp3
http://preview.traxsource.com/files/pre ... 001-1p.m3u

http://preview.traxsource.com/files/pre ... 007-1p.mp3

the shuffle on the hats is really important as seems to give the drums life and drive... my hats seem to always sound metalic, weak and dont really
fill up the beats much, if you understand me

little help ??

you see this 1 soundz real simple
http://preview.traxsource.com/files/pre ... 004-5p.mp3

but am i missing something as my drums never sound like this ?? even when i use a similar
arrangement
is there some low level hats at work here ? or tamz maybe

JA
_________________

RibbedSauce · Post by **RibbedSauce** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:37 pm

get yourself some samples of hi hats therell be loads floating around make sure they are loops and not hits, and when you find one, listen hard to it, bring it into ableton and try recreate it

one thing i did to my hats to make them sound alot better, but its down to personal preference, is have 2 tracks of hats, exactly the same programming, but one panned to the left, and the other panned to the right, and i made the right one slightly behind in time, just very slightly, gives it a kinda delyaed sound rather than a solid hit

bbuzzard · Post by **bbuzzard** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:38 am

Try shakers with your hihats.
peace

michaellpenman · Post by **michaellpenman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:48 am

add a delay on ypur hats
a fliter delay with the left channel solo'd, the set to 1 of 3 and experiment with the feedback this can be used as a insert or as a pre delay on ther return channel
for the kick add a sub kick on 1 and 3 a 808 tail will do for this
also to lifing a house beat up add a delay on the hi end, to do this set up a EQ3 and set it to group and the splt the track to low , mid and hi the delay the hi's
also for any production buy vintage warmer its amazing you can get the demo on
http://www.pspaudioware.com/
adds so much nessary warth to your mixies

johnashby · Post by **johnashby** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:19 am

ok some great tips here for me to try out, thans very much,

not sure i understand the delay on the Hi's but ill set it up and give it a whirl,
might all come together once im actually doing it in Live !

Silence · Post by **Silence** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:57 am

i´d recommend that you listen to the rest of the beat, if the kicks a

nd such don't really work i could affect the overall beat and give the perception of the hi hats being weak.

but if we focus on the groove id recommend using a open hi hat that u like on the off beat. Now take another fatter hi hat or whatever suits the song and layer it on 3 and 11 and use another hi hat that is slightly higher pitched than the first layered one on 7 and 15...

now on 8 and 16 use a really fat hi hat, clap, kick, something not as dominating as the kick or snare/clap but that sounds bulky and shuffle lé beat.

theeeeeeeen....use a kick as shake...

and don't forget to eq and tune the kick and snare/clap if needed...

this could work...maby?

Bierman · Post by **Bierman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:46 pm

imo the most important technique for house and techno production (ie kicks always and only on beats 1, 2, 3 and 4) is sidechaining compression. Apparently this is now available in Live 7 and there may be a workaround in 6... I use 5, but rewire into Logic which is well sorted for sidechaining.... but basically how it works is this:

(in this instance) all your hats would be programmed using all the useful tips supplied above... and then grouped together in one track so that the compression affects all the hats at once. what the sidechaining does is reduce the volume of your hat loop when the kick drum hits, and then allows the volume of the hat loop to rise up again, reaching its 'optimal' volume just before the next kick drum hits.

when you listen to house grooves, the predominant thing you notice is the emphasis on the upbeat (ie the beats evenly spaced between the kick drum) sometime its an open hat, sometimes a double hat on the 16s, sometimes a shaker... whatever, it doesn't really matter, as long as the emphasis lands on that upbeat. but also, crucially, those hat sounds duck out of the way when the kick hits, and then rise back up again.

you can use this sidechaining technique on lots of other sounds, not just hats. pads, white noise whooshes, reverb tails, bass, whatever you want. it means that when the kick drum hits, lots of the other sounds and frequencies duck out of the way. when it comes to mixing and mastering, you'll end u with a proud, punchy kick.

as for how to actually do the sidechaining, unless you use Logic ,I can;t really help.

johnashby · Post by **johnashby** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:55 pm

yeah the side chaining sounds useful also, im going to get live 7 so maybe someone else could explain how to set this up, as i have a few compressors that have side chain as a function,

maybe screen shots of the set up ?? sorry to be a noob, but there ya go,

im happy to experiment and try new things but somethings you just gotta ask !!

many thanks indeed JA

snakedogman · Post by **snakedogman** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:26 pm

johnashby wrote:the shuffle on the hats is really important as seems to give the drums life and drive... my hats seem to always sound metalic, weak and dont really
fill up the beats much, if you understand me

can you post an example of what you've managed to make so far? Maybe that would make it easier for people to point out things to change or add.

Personally I'm not sure which combination of techniques makes that chracteristic house beat. Of course shuffle is definitely a big part of it, but also correct placement of the secondary percussion elements (everything around the main kick and hat). I think a hefty dose of (sidechained) compression on the percussion submix is important as well.
If you hats don't sound right, it might also simply be a case of not having the right kind of samples. I'm sure those house producers sample eachothers beats over and over so maybe try finding some isolated beats in tracks that you like and sample those, cut them up etc...

also check out the website of Olav Basoski, he has some production tips there which might help.

johnashby · Post by **johnashby** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:52 pm

yeah thats a good idea, ok let me post up a beat ive made on mp3
and then at least there is reference and people can tell me what would improve the general sound,

i also think your right, alot of sampling goes on between producers,
maybe i could isolate some nice hats or shaker sounds, guess it depends on finding a section of just beats in the intro or outro,

ill get a mp3 up here 2morrow, ta

JkeyD · Post by **JkeyD** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:21 am

This process as with most other things in Live 7.0.1 is very simple.

Very basically.

U just grab a compressor and on the top left of the device next to the on/off button is a small triangle.

Clik the triangle and sidechain options become available on the compressor in 2 sections. Audio from and filter type.

Then all u have to decide is wether to use audio from or a filter.

Then adjust to taste

There is obviously more to sidechianing such as envelope types, attack, threshold, release, ratios, knee etc.

This is just a basic intro to sidechaining in Live 7.0.1.

Hope this helps.

Bierman · Post by **Bierman** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:26 pm

sounds very easy to do... I wondr how much an upgrade from Live 5 to 7 would be?

Mr Man · Post by **Mr Man** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:56 pm

So many different techniques... ever tried looping a sample of noise or cymbal and drawing volume or filter automation? Just zero the line graph and start drawing in like a step sequencer!

JkeyD · Post by **JkeyD** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:34 am

Bierman wrote:sounds very easy to do... I wondr how much an upgrade from Live 5 to 7 would be?

It is very easy mate! The hard part is deciding when enough is enough!

I picked up sidechaining in Live7 in less than a couple of hours and im far from a tech head

https://www.ableton.com/shop

Hope this helps Bierman.

johnashby · Post by **johnashby** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:19 am

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=795869

let me know what you think ?
too much going on ??

how can this be improved, no eq or compression on this beat

Help with solid house beats

Help with solid house beats

Re: Help with solid house beats

Sidechaining

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