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Pro Logic 8

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:34 pm
by neyko
Does anyone here use Pro Logic 8? I would like to hear thoughts on it?

I did a quick search and unless I missed it I have not seen this topic.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:28 am
by Freekster
Well, it's just great!

I've been using logic for 8 years now and have to say it's very good, but of cource it depends what you are looking for?

For $500 you get big bunch of good quality softsynths and plugins with probably best sequencer. I use Live daily and Logic weekly, depending what I'm doing. I don't ever record vocals or live instruments to live as Logic has better tools for it. Also I do all mixing with Logic as I feel it's a lot better for that. I start most of the tracks with Live and run live as a rewire with logic. Live sets I also do with live.

$500 is a steal for package like Logic Studio.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:58 am
by neyko
I am using Ableton. I would like to get an even nicer sound on recorded vocals and other audio and the AU and jam packs look great.

My concern is the number of people on the Apple forums complaining about CPU spikes, crashing programs and other issues. There are really a large number of people.

The price and package look amazing.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:18 pm
by Electronathan
Logic is cool, don't worry about the apple discussion boards, they're only for troubleshooting and technical issues, so of course it's not going to look great for prospective buyers. :)

The VIs are excellent, the work flow is top-notch. There are bugs just like any other program, but Apple is slow to update; proceed at your own risk. It shouldn't be anything that'll stop you from working & having fun.

The Logic/Live Rewire combo is excellent too. The most recent updates of live 7 have really improved the performance and stability running Live synced to Logic.

Go for it.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:31 pm
by guly
there are bugs like not other known music software, indeed..
starting from the punch to icons view and so on.
7.2 was absolutely a better software, i used to work with logic (not professionally, like what i do with Live) and i have to say that it's a good software and the price for the studio version is extremely cheap but you can't work with it now. a lot of pro's i know are waiting for an upgrade since this winter, maybe like leopard users (gh).
on the other side, VIs are great and you have a wide choice of sound and the routing is absolutely complete. when you will get a huge upgrade that fix a lot of bugs, of course.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:57 pm
by neyko
guly wrote: and i have to say that it's a good software and the price for the studio version is extremely cheap but you can't work with it now.
Comments like this scare me off from buying it. I don't care if it is free - if I can't work with it I don't want it on my computer.

Maybe you made a typo?

If so - what about all these CPU spikes I hear about? I am getting the 3.06 Mhz iMac. That should run it fine, right? And what abut my macbook? specs below.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:05 pm
by guly
no i meant you CANNOT work with it. i think about it as a beta version, you know logic7pro was at 1k bocks, logic8studio at 500. actually you pay half now and half when you will have a stable product ;)

hw requirements are also huge, compared to Live7 ones or logic7 too. system overload almost everynow.
my advice is to wait for the next release, if you want to use it.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:29 pm
by three
As someone who's been using Logic and Ableton both for a while, I don't think you can compare them very easily. The programs are too different.

On the subject of overload, it's the case with _any_ DAW that if you don't watch your resources it'll kill your system. Resource management is part of the game, and I don't find it any harder on Logic than it is in Live.

What I do find impossible in Logic is beatsmithing. The beauty of Ableton is session view and the way you can massage your midi until you have just the right set of patterns and then take that to the arrangement view.

Logic is the opposite, all it does is arrangement view, but it does an excellent job of it. Managing a 10 different drum patterns is a humongous pain in Logic, but if you have those patterns, and are ready to mixdown, then Logic is extremely comfortable.

So that's the way I work, at least. I write tracks in live, until they're about 90% done. Then I take them over to logic for the final arrangement (usually just midi unless there was something that i really liked on ableton plugins in which I'll tend to bounce it from Ableton and take it over as a soundfile.) and the final tweaking.

Regarding plugins, I agree wholeheartedly with Freekster's comment. Nowhere else will you get:

- an excellent(!) reverb - space designer that came out with logic 8 sounds excellent
- a super fun delay - i've lost whole weekends of my life just playing with delay designer
- 2 passable compressors
- and a whole bunch more

for only $500. if you don't already have outboard stuff or individual plugins for those things, you an get logic just for finishing tracks to mixdown and save money - it's cheaper than altiverb and any one other decent plugin.



Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:42 pm
by Atomikat
I use both ...Logic Pro 8 to make some noises,beats,drums,etc...when they're ready, just use them into Ableton Live to have lots of fun... :D
BTW...I use a Macbook Pro, 2.16 Mhz,2Gb with a RME Multiface and no problems at all... :wink:

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:46 pm
by Bokonon
I'm using logic 8 on a number of different systems (macbook, mac mini core solo and some Imacs) and there are very few issues that I have come across with it, I've found it a very solid piece of software, and my students use it day in day out for work, and so do I for teaching.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:54 pm
by three
Bokonon wrote:I'm using logic 8 on a number of different systems (macbook, mac mini core solo and some Imacs) and there are very few issues that I have come across with it, I've found it a very solid piece of software, and my students use it day in day out for work, and so do I for teaching.
absolutely - i wouldn't want to miss either one.

i'm still shocked that apple hasn't managed to fix the routing mess that defines that program (as a developer i've often schemed about ways to get rid of the environment completely) but everything else is just top notch.

the operative question is the purpose, ableton lends itself to producing electronic music quite well, but it's very difficult to do serious composing on, as in film etc. on the other hadn the workflow is very unnatural in logic i find when working on electronic tracks. i don't want to have to set up full multitrack clips to just try a different snare rhythm on the chorus.


Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:06 pm
by neyko
See I have no problem working with Ableton as a DAW. I think people have been brainwashed into thinking that is is not a capable "rock & pop" recording unit.
I thought Logic might be able to give me more sonic depth with the surround sound and the ability to edit noisy tracks and the like.

I would still like to hear more thoughts. I am beginning to think a new A/D D/A converter like the Echo Layla might serve me better than Logic.

Keep sharing your thoughts I'd like to make up my mind by this weekend.

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:08 am
by three
neyko wrote:See I have no problem working with Ableton as a DAW.
i think the question is largely what you do and how you do it. i record everything over logical ins & outs on 1-2 pcs - so on my main box, and sometimes the mac mini gets to pitch in - and i just never quite feel comfortable with big sound files in ableton.

the guy i do a lot of sound work with had a dedicated protools machine with some insane number of ins, like 26 (yes, insane for a home studio with maybe 20 outs including the A/D interface in the coffeemachine, not insane for a recording studio) so he runs various rme interfaces into that and all kinds of outboard routing. that leaves him as the king of 700mb wav recordings that get chopped up - he works with audio files from very early on.

i tend to tweak the midi and the presets the whole time, and only dump it to disk somewhere near the end of the process.

i love live up until then, as long as everything is little clips it's the perfect creative environment, but when it's time to have 10 or 12 tracks of audo lined up (and staying lined up!) i feel more comfortable in logic. logic also can do some amazing things with timing. i don't think there's another DAW, even protools, that can quantize things so well to then have the luxury of going back and putting the groove right in the pocket.

if i had to choose, it'd be ableton no question - i *make* music in ableton, and i just mix it in logic.

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:30 am
by kraze
Of course it's different from person to person, there's so many factors to weigh in, but i for one think Logic is great.

I've used it since 2002, not exclusively, but i've always had the option, but it was the arrival of logic 8 that had me sold.

I still love Live and the extreme quickness of everything, but Logic is great. The extremely easy way of just bussing audio out to busses and then recording them is bloody genious, sure, it's been done, but it's flawless in Logic 8.

And i've never had it crash, not even once, not even a graphic glitch or anything.

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:42 am
by three
kraze wrote:And i've never had it crash, not even once, not even a graphic glitch or anything.
wow, that's pretty cool. i come from the depths of the linux sound world, where crashes are all just part of the mystery, only been on osx about two years and it has been rock solid, but i'd say logic craps its pants about once a week or once every two weeks.

regarding the buses, it's funny, that's one of my pet peeves: logic has audio routing, that is, anytime after the sound has been generated, down to an exact science. and ableton is a wet dream of midi routing. i just wish there was one program that would handle midi like ableton and audio more like logic.

i usually run 10+ tracks of midi for a drum kit, high kick, low kick, open hat, closed hat, etc are all on their own separate tracks. (i would assume most people do that, then pump all the midi into a drum kit or kits, right?) that makes it much easier to drop someting from the kit for a couple of bars, test alternate patterns, or whatever. getting that set up in logic is just so unbelievably painful. (i'm actually working on a multi-purpose-midi-routing-plugin right now to kick logic's ass, as well as give me arbitrary lfo's. it mystifies me completely that modern DAW's don't have the capacity to sidechain Anything to AnythingElse™ in the default configuration. sure, the plugins have to support a separate control input, but that's not exactly uncharted territory either.

incidentally there was another thread going on about vokator - that's one of my favorite things about that synth: it has 4(count em!) lfo's and 2 step sequencers, and you can map them to _any_ parameter in the vokator.

anyway, getting late over here, have a good one,