[TIP] 3D Movement in sounds

7G · Post by 7G » Wed May 28, 2008 7:41 am

Hi,

I thought it would be a good idea to have a topic dedicated in movement,depth and dimension in your mixes.
Take as an example Richard Devine and Datachi tracks.You really can feel those sounds moving all around you...
I really like Wave arts Panorama 5 plug cause you can move sounds in a real crazy way...
So share your ideas in how you can make those sounds flying left,right,up,down in your face or in out of space...

Finally one question:
Do you find it better to use a plugin to do it or the old style manual way by adding reverb,filtering,LFO's etc.?

Cheers!

bulo · Post by **bulo** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:24 pm

Panorama is cool but...
You can do it with the utility plug-in and the auto-pan.
Put a sine wave in the autopan and play with the left and right buttons on the utility.
When the pan is full left, click on the right phase inverter, and then the sound travels from left to right behind your head. Maybe it's the contrary, I don't remember, I have to open my Live and look at this, but you'll find before.
Play with reverb for the deep...
I don't really understand what's the process for the up/down thing. Frequencies play a lot, but it's more difficult to acheive I think.
Also, the movement is very important to feel the dimension. If you stop the movement when the sound is behind your head with the trick using utility/autopan, you'll find it hard to describe it as "behind".

7G · Post by 7G » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:31 am

Excellent stuff man!!!I will give it a go...
Keep em coming

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:57 am

http://www.soundhack.com/shapers.php

check out the binaural one:

"This filter places a sound at a specific position around the listener's head. Use it with a reverb to create a virtual environment. When used with it's LFO, +binaural can place various beats or parts of a loop in specific repeatable positions."

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:55 pm

the surround panner in kontakt is pretty badass.

i also like to separate the left and right sides of an eq by clicking that special button ableton was so nice as to provide for us. macroing the left and right sides to switch up is cool.

you can also mod an offset panner delay time to get some pretty wild spread effects.

maybe i'll post more later, but i'm moving...

7G · Post by 7G » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:04 am

The Phat Conductor wrote:the surround panner in kontakt is pretty badass.

i also like to separate the left and right sides of an eq by clicking that special button ableton was so nice as to provide for us. macroing the left and right sides to switch up is cool.

you can also mod an offset panner delay time to get some pretty wild spread effects.

maybe i'll post more later, but i'm moving...

It's about time to show up on this Phats..hehe

Bread and butter topic!!!

Jeskola, that thing looks pretty freaky..I'll give it a shoot!
Thanx guys...

Kylemcsparron · Post by **Kylemcsparron** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:10 pm

I made this swirling delay idea using lives devices a while ago, but this topic has got me to go back and revise it.

http://www.zshare.net/download/13045066245bfec6/

bulo · Post by **bulo** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:21 am

Ok, I've made a small Live Pack, so you can see and analyse what's the thing.
pan movements.alp - 3.60MB
The first track is the sample with a reverb (ambiance, but if you don't have it it's not a big problem), a utility and an autopan. The second one is the result of this, as we can see the rendered waveform.
In fact the only parameter which is automated is the width. It's not the phase buttons as I said in my first post. It interacts with the autopan.
I let you analyse what happens... simple but really cool.
If you have a stereo analyser it's better.
If not, look at the level meter (for the pan position) while the width automation...

(and sorry for the volume automation on the "result" track, I don't know why it's here, but that's not important)

arachnaut · Post by **arachnaut** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:50 am

Sometimes you get great effect with using the 'spin' feature in the various utilities instead of the simple panning. Spin makes the left and right pan at different rates.

Cool Edit has a great Doppler effect that lets you draw a path and the sound appears to move along that shape.

7G · Post by 7G » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:21 am

Automation also plays a great role if for example want a sound from far and distant to become close an in your face(Datachi uses this technique in some of his tracks)...Just a little bit of reverb and movement automation should do the trick i guess...Now i'm thinking to sound design an airplane sound and fly it around my head...hehehe

That would be a good excersise for me!
Don't try this at home though if you have heart problems cause the G's are after you...

bensuthers · Post by **bensuthers** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:40 am

you know, you can do some great 3D stuff with Autofilter and the phase/spin parameters.

7G · Post by 7G » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:42 pm

Just found another great plug from Prosoniq:

http://www.prosoniq.com/main/ambisone/

Check it!

Der_Makrophag · Post by **Der_Makrophag** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:58 am

For up and down things: I allways think of lowpassfilters put the sound "down" and a highpass rises it "up". But to complete the real feeling, there is something missing, I think (perhaps the width trick from bulo somehow... dont know). Or is this only my feeling?

To your final question:
I'd like to combine lives "simple" effects to build such an 3D positioner more than buying any plugin...

Der_Makrophag · Post by **Der_Makrophag** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:23 pm

I just tried a lillte bit and built a Displacer.

Get it here:
displacer.alp - 0.54MB

You can set 2 axis:
Left-Right and
Up-Down

(I tried to include a front/rear-axis in bulos way, but this is not what I want because the heavy signal EQ-shaping included there. Although I like this idea...)

The Project includes a loop walking in a square (in a 45° angle) from over your ear level to the left down to your ear level, then over the center under you rear level and then back to your ear level to the right.

You can use this as a normal effekt on your instruments instead of your normal reverb perhaps.

I used L/R coding for the L/R axis and a frequency divider for the up/down axis. Every axis is completed with internal reverb, damping and volume processing. I also included a short time delay (to simulate distances in addition to volume information), but you should only use THIS, after turning one axis off inside the rack.
Because Live does not allaw bipolar (or mirrored) knob alignment, te structure of the rack has become very confusing, but in the current view, you can change reverb parameters with the macros inside "L/R" and "UP/Dn". For the rest: dig in!!

However, feel free to play around with the axis, and tell me how you like it/how realistic it sounds etc... Perhaps you have ideas including a front/rear axis?

7G · Post by 7G » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:27 am

Der_Makrophag wrote:
To your final question:
I'd like to combine lives "simple" effects to build such an 3D positioner more than buying any plugin...

Great contribution man...I like your approach
I'll give it a try!