At the risk of being controversial...

[ChiDJ]

Mike, you just killed this thread.

[Starkravingdead]

Then there is a needless seriousness to all of it, also. Few seem to have a sense of humor about what they are doing.

I couldn't agree more. I find reading endless posts about technicalities as dry as sandpapering my eyes. I want to know what people are writing their songs about and why! Anybody?

I do enjoy quite a few new bands/artists, but the throwaway, second-album-bomb-factor prevents me from caring that much. A few recent examples include Hurts, La Roux, White Lies all of whom I like and hope stay around for longer than 2 albums. And if anyone can point me in the direction of an amateur outfit that is intelligent and sarcastic (ie. http://www.myspace.com/thevichygovernment) I would be eternally grateful.

[davepermen]

looks like you just lost your ability to listen to music just for the enjoyment of the actual music. no, instead you listen to it and think "that's just for hip marketing to sell millions and then drop the artist again and all".

so the only one who actually is too serious about all of it is YOU not being able to just enjoy it.

[mikemc]

Mike, you just killed this thread.

oh dewd... damn!

[Starkravingdead]

looks like you just lost your ability to listen to music just for the enjoyment of the actual music. no, instead you listen to it and think "that's just for hip marketing to sell millions and then drop the artist again and all".

so the only one who actually is too serious about all of it is YOU not being able to just enjoy it.

Relax, I'm not here for an argument. I also play keyboards for an indie band and it occurs to me whenever ourselves and others perform, "What exactly are we trying to communicate here?" Is there any thought given to the lyrics, to the construction of the sound, is it ever anything more than just a collection of ad hoc instrumentation?

I'd like to hear more of an attempt by musicians to build their sounds on top of palpable ideas, whether they are serious or not. All the talent and technical ability in the world cannot make-up for having nothing to say. Its the Joy Division effect: technically awful yet full of expression.

[davepermen]

looks like you just lost your ability to listen to music just for the enjoyment of the actual music. no, instead you listen to it and think "that's just for hip marketing to sell millions and then drop the artist again and all".

so the only one who actually is too serious about all of it is YOU not being able to just enjoy it.

Relax, I'm not here for an argument. I also play keyboards for an indie band and it occurs to me whenever ourselves and others perform, "What exactly are we trying to communicate here?" Is there any thought given to the lyrics, to the construction of the sound, is it ever anything more than just a collection of ad hoc instrumentation?

I'd like to hear more of an attempt by musicians to build their sounds on top of palpable ideas, whether they are serious or not. All the talent and technical ability in the world cannot make-up for having nothing to say. Its the Joy Division effect: technically awful yet full of expression.

you're posting in a forum and are not there for an argument? what are you in here for, then?

btw, ask those musicians why they do their music, what they think of it, instead of just declaring it crap. maybe you don't understand their message? or maybe they don't want a message, but just fun? music isn't about "having something to say". it can be used for this, but it's NOT it's primary purpose.

[ethios4]

There's more to music than just concrete expression. There is a rich and extensive history of instrumental classical music, for example. What were those guys "trying to say"?

I'm down with music with lyrics, and I agree that if you are going to have lyrics they better be good and meaningful! And there's lots of instrumental electronic music that is wanking, but I also think sometimes the music IS the message. A night of meaningless dance music can be quite meaningful!

For my own music, which is entirely instrumental, I do consider meaning in the structure and function of the music. For example, a track I'm working on now transitions from psytrance to dubstep and back and I ask myself "Why does it do that? What in the music motivates that change?" It's a very abstract question, but I believe it is possible to create meaningful sequences of emotional/mental abstractions.

[stringtapper]

Except for the brief mention that ethios made, all I read in this thread is words like "band" and "song." You're basically talking about a half a percent of the music that's been composed throughout history when you talk about your pop music (that's right, it's pop music). Maybe branch out first, then talk about what has or does not have substance to it.

[ikeaboy]

95 odd % of music has always been shite. You've just taken your eyes off the good stuff or your temporary (or permanent who can say?) jaded.

[beats me]

Finally a post in The Lounge with some teeth, but I see a lot of people are still equalizing from the "yay, a playground!" mentality this forum was born from. Guilty myself.

I would pose a little self analysis of everybody on this forum's music crafts time. How much time do you spend playing away on the keyboard, guitar, bass, or drums in comparison to diddling around with virtual knobs, faders, and clip launches. We reached the point where "writing" music is 95% parameter lane automation. And that shit just isn't from the soul, man.

[bosonHavoc]

part of it is how and when you listen to the music..
sitting at your computer waiting to get blown away in under 10 seconds while you critique the track.. trying to find its meaning, message, purpose.. what ever...
is prolly not the way the song was intended to be listened too
but when you here a song at the right time and place.. that same lame boring.. weird.. what ever.. song could just blow you away..

[bosonHavoc]

.. double post

[ChiDJ]

Finally a post in The Lounge with some teeth, but I see a lot of people are still equalizing from the "yay, a playground!" mentality this forum was born from. Guilty myself.

I would pose a little self analysis of everybody on this forum's music crafts time. How much time do you spend playing away on the keyboard, guitar, bass, or drums in comparison to diddling around with virtual knobs, faders, and clip launches. We reached the point where "writing" music is 95% parameter lane automation. And that shit just isn't from the soul, man.

Speak for yourself "home-slice". I like playing with my knob!!!

[arctic ranger]

Finally a post in The Lounge with some teeth, but I see a lot of people are still equalizing from the "yay, a playground!" mentality this forum was born from. Guilty myself.

I would pose a little self analysis of everybody on this forum's music crafts time. How much time do you spend playing away on the keyboard, guitar, bass, or drums in comparison to diddling around with virtual knobs, faders, and clip launches. We reached the point where "writing" music is 95% parameter lane automation. And that shit just isn't from the soul, man.

dude...not too long ago playing electronic music was waiting for samples to load via scsi and tediously mapping samples to keyzones on tiny screens. have you ever tried renaming sounds on a akai s-3000?.. sucks(i couldnt count how many "untitled xx" sounds i had on any program)...just saying that it was the same shit different pile back then for getting lost in technical stuff...as for the op goes there was the same amount of what he calls crap music back in the day, you just didnt have the convenience of the internet to casually preview tracks while watching porn, msning your freinds and playing poker in your pajamas. personally i like it. nobody really is trying to ram it in your face. in fact it makes it easier to find what you are looking for.

[beats me]

Finally a post in The Lounge with some teeth, but I see a lot of people are still equalizing from the "yay, a playground!" mentality this forum was born from. Guilty myself.

I would pose a little self analysis of everybody on this forum's music crafts time. How much time do you spend playing away on the keyboard, guitar, bass, or drums in comparison to diddling around with virtual knobs, faders, and clip launches. We reached the point where "writing" music is 95% parameter lane automation. And that shit just isn't from the soul, man.

dude...not too long ago playing electronic music was waiting for samples to load via scsi and tediously mapping samples to keyzones on tiny screens. have you ever tried renaming sounds on a akai s-3000?.. sucks(i couldnt count how many "untitled xx" sounds i had on any program)...just saying that it was the same shit different pile back then for getting lost in technical stuff...as for the op goes there was the same amount of what he calls crap music back in the day, you just didnt have the convenience of the internet to casually preview tracks while watching porn, msning your freinds and playing poker in your pajamas. personally i like it. nobody really is trying to ram it in your face. in fact it makes it easier to find what you are looking for.

One of my first keyboards was a new at the time Korg DSS-1 sampler, $1,500 for 16 seconds total of stereo samples that you had to save to and load from multiple floppies. So I'm well aware of the good 'ol days. But with those limitations I spent more time working on song structure and composition than micro automating parameters on the same 8 bar loop for days on end. The music had more feeling to it because that is what I could focus on given the limitations.