Which is More Important to You the 2nd Amendment or Unity

[q.musgrove]

^ being anti-anti-federal government" is total fail.

You see now... back in the day when the national guard was shooting student protesters we thought we had a REAL problem. Now we don't really protest to hard, and we criticize each other for harnessing the right to be able to defend ourselves should it ever happen again. That seems like a bigger problem to me. But then again anyone who thinks the government would or could do anything to harm you is a nutter right!?

[dum]

Thanks for the nutcase paranoia example.

But don't worry, the US will let you keep your gun while they screw you with taxes. Go ahead and sit with your sidearm in hand waiting for the US military to parachute into your backyard. Should be any day now.

[beats me]

In every country there will always be isolated events of the government, or more specifically individual humans in an authority position, abusing their power or making a poor decision. But jumping from those incidents to some kind of government sanctioned police state across the board is pretty retarded.

[q.musgrove]

that isolated event is actually only one of many.. are you really that daft? That hole "being scared of the government is for stupid conspiracy theorists" argument is soo 2007. Try using history (see past events which are factually accurate) to validate what you are trying to say.. What is it you're trying to say though?

[beats me]

I'm saying that whatever issues we have within our country isn't going to be solved with "everybody grab a gun!" and trying to create a mass opinion that everybody is under constant impending threat from the the government/police/gangs/terrorists/neighbors is largely alarmist bullshit.

But I will also admit that given the amount of guns in this country coupled with the amount of depression, anger, and alcohol and drug use, the amount of gun injuries or deaths in this country is shockingly low.

[beats me]

Timely

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/19/3- ... ad/?hpt=T2

Which side are you going to take on this one: This shit ball shouldn't have had a gun or this is why you need to have a gun to protect yourself from shit balls?

[LoopStationZebra]

[LoopStationZebra]

[LoopStationZebra]

[q.musgrove]

no one is saying that everybody should by a gun... or that everyone is "under constant impending threat".

No one has advocated fixing our countries issues with guns. We're talking about the reasons behind the inception of the 2nd amendment and it's application to a more modern american way of life. You're over reacting.

And besides, guns have some very practical applications

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/453 ... 928a_o.jpg

[nuperspective]

can somebody explain to me WTF all this "open carry" shit is about? its not the fuckin wild west. what the fuck do they plan to do shoot up the place if somebody cheats at poker! too many inbred crackers are losing their minds.

you really need to sort your own shit out. in the last 5 years people under the mason dixon line have regressed back the the 1800's, at this rate by 2025 you will be wearing bear skin and hitting your women over the head with a fuckin clubs.

"white people havent been this angry since they cancelled MASH"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/19/ ... index.html

[liveISlife]

[deva]

The 2nd amendment is the right of every US citizen to own guns originally meant to be used in defense of our country. Since then it has been perverted into the right of every idiot to own a gun just for the fuck of it. Most hardliners on this have no legitimate reason or impending threat to justify owning guns but the law of the land just lets them slide on that technicality.

It is none of the governments goddamned business whether I own a gun. And of course the reason to own a gun these days is because the U.S. government is the biggest threat to the freedom of the U.S. citizen.

One of the reasons the U.S. backed coup failed in Venezuela in 2002 is because 1,000,000 Venezuelans surrounded the presidential palace. In Venezuela an average of 1 in 4 people carry a gun, and more people have them. So when the coup plotters looked outside, they saw 1 million people and they knew there were at least 250,000 guns opposing them. In the U.S. it would be 250,000 posters/signs saying please be nice.

Thanks for the nutcase paranoia example.

But don't worry, the US will let you keep your gun while they screw you with taxes. Go ahead and sit with your sidearm in hand waiting for the US military to parachute into your backyard. Should be any day now.

Nutcase paranoia example?

The only example I gave was Venezuela and that is verifiable fact.

If you mean my claim that the U.S. government is a threat to the citizens of this country, then I think both history and current events support that statement. The current administration claims the right to assassinate U.S. citizens without evidence or trial... calls people critical of the government extremists, trumps up charges, listens in on everyones phone calls, emails etc with impunity. Posse Comitatus is a thing of the past. If none of that scares you, then you are the nutcase...

[deva]

I'm saying that whatever issues we have within our country isn't going to be solved with "everybody grab a gun!" and trying to create a mass opinion that everybody is under constant impending threat from the the government/police/gangs/terrorists/neighbors is largely alarmist bullshit.

But I will also admit that given the amount of guns in this country coupled with the amount of depression, anger, and alcohol and drug use, the amount of gun injuries or deaths in this country is shockingly low.

Obviously the issues we have within our country will not be solved by everyone getting a gun... Getting a gun, learning how to use it, and building local networks of people who will stand with each other, share resources and so on are not mutually exclusive choices. Sure there are some loonies with guns, but having a gun and defending the right to have one does not make you a loonie, isolated and holed up in your house.

The U.S. military states itself that it is expecting social unrest, riots etc as the gap between rich and poor continues to grow. So the military is preparing to repress such rebellion. History is also rather clear on that point - as the wealth gap increases, so does civil strife and usually government repression of its citizens.

I think people on the left, liberals progressives or whatever have abdicated rationale response to the current circumstances. There is a profound state of denial. There is a near complete vacuum of social movement... so there are millions of people who are justifiably angry, disillusioned, lost their homes, jobs and sense of meaning. With that absence from the left, many people turn to something like the Tea Party movement. Almost daily I hear liberal types ridicule the Tea Party movement, but that ridicule is an expression of their own sense of self importance and arrogance and whose underpinning is fear. It misses that lots of the people drawn there are just folk angry with the collusion of the government and Wall Street to steal from them; afraid of a social order that is collapsing under its own inherent contradictions; angry as they realize that their government does not represent them.

Since the left is afraid of the real world and that their false niceness and cant we all just get along whimpy-ness has led to that abdication I mentioned, that vacuum has opened the door for reactionary freaks on the right to have a voice much louder than their actual numbers. Noam Chomsky says he has never seen anything like this and that the far right could well sweep into power just as it did in Weimar Germany.

The current administration is claiming essentially dictatorial powers (right to detain/imprison/assassinate US citizens without trial) and it is not very far from there to a full on police state. Our rights are gone. The only thing between here and a full on police state is inertia. Historically once a government claims such powers, it is not long before they start using them on a larger scale. Once lost, such rights are hard to regain and usually it takes revolt to do so.

It is only a peculiar turn of mind that is labeling people who see this historical context and its current parallels as conspiracy theorists (nutcases).

[nuperspective]

the tea party "movement" are a bunch of half wits. anti taxation. really?? the bad news is you dont pay enough tax in the US already.

gun control. america will have to make a choice between drugs and guns. because once that shit south spills over the border fuelled by guns bought in the US its a national security issue. the hammer will come down on gun control.

so either get with the program or lose a lot by force.