A letter from Steve Jobs: Fuck you, Adobe

[LoopStationZebra]

Awwww... Are we being sour about not being able to have "The Complete Internet" on your dream tablet?

Well, yeah. Kinda. Would have been cool to have another device from which to properly compare the iPad.

Or, from your standpoint, not. lol.

[crumhorn]

Jobs speaks with forked tongue.

Flash may be crap but it's still the only show in town if you want to get your content to the maximum number of users. at the moment the only reason for using the HTML 5 audio and video tags is if you want your stuff to play on the iPhone, etc. None of the main browsers agree on which codecs to support and IE doesn't support them at all. The one thing that works on all those platforms is FLASH. Using the HTML 5 audio tag requires you to provide at least 3 different audio formats and still provide a flash backup for browsers that don't understand HTML 5.

Flash doesn't support multi touch? Maybe Adobe would develop this id there was a chance of it running on a platform that supports it! And Roll overs are a widely adopted internet standard that has nothing to do with flash. How does dropping support for mouse-down events and introducing your own touch-start event (without submitting it to any relevant standards body) count as supporting open standards.

It's exactly the same "embrace and extend" strategy that Microsoft adopted in the late '90s.

If they are so interested in standards why not drop their crappy canvas tag and properly adopt svg. Apple's approach to standards is "this is the what we've decided - now take it or leave it"

[LoopStationZebra]

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/flash-ipad/

Wired.com’s Webmonkey editor Michael Calore points out that ditching Flash for HTML5 would be complex for the web as a whole. (HTML5 is technically not a format, after all.) He points out that there’s no agreed upon video format for HTML5, and support varies greatly from browser to browser.

“Not to be overly critical of Apple — anyone pushing for open web standards deserves kudos — but the company seems more deeply concerned with digging Flash’s grave than it does with promoting semantic markup,” Calore wrote.

Read More http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/ ... z0n06YWS9X

[LoopStationZebra]

lol

http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/

That's some list! Be still my beating heart!

[nebulae]

let me be blunt...there's not a single pr0n site on that list. hence, the ipad will fail.

[humnumb]

let me be blunt...there's not a single pr0n site on that list. hence, the ipad will fail.

Learn to read:
"Here are just a few of the sites that take advantage of these web standards"

[nebulae]

let me be blunt...there's not a single pr0n site on that list. hence, the ipad will fail.

Learn to read:
"Here are just a few of the sites that take advantage of these web standards"

Fuck you. I'll read if the text is coded in flash.

[H20nly]

^ YEAH!

this kind of confusion wouldn't occur if there was a big ass button that said ENTER LIST. then if you didn't have Flash, you could download it and...... then........ you could look at the list.

[delicioso]

Flash may be crap but it's still the only show in town if you want to get your content to the maximum number of users.

Not anymore. I don't need to list all the reasons why Flash is proprietary crap. Flash has already lost the battle. Apple, Google, and now Microsoft have adopted HTML5. Don't buy into Adobe's propaganda. They want to direct attention away from the possibility that their flagship product stands to lose market share in the shakeup over the future of the Web. Flash has been a common-denominator solution for video, only because of the absence of any solid alternative, partly helped by the format war between mov and wmv. The bottom line is that open Web standards are finally able to accomplish all that Flash does, not only for video but for interactive animation and drawing.

at the moment the only reason for using the HTML 5 audio and video tags is if you want your stuff to play on the iPhone, etc.

There's a lot more to HTML5 than the audio/video tags. HTML5 is an open standard that doesn't require a plugin like flash. All the browsers inlcuding IE are now on board with HTML5 as a standard which means it will work automatically across all browsers.

Some examples of HMTL5:
HTML5 drawing app: http://mugtug.com/sketchpad/
Ajax Animator: http://antimatter15.com/ajaxanimator/build/
HTML5 and Javascript synthesizer: http://vimeo.com/11411533
HTML5 3D FFT Visualization with CubicVR: http://vimeo.com/11345262
HTML5 Audio-Data Visualizations: http://vimeo.com/11355121
3D w/ WebGL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6raXoJG9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vva36undIss
HTML5 Canvas animations:
http://cs.helsinki.fi/u/ilmarihe/canvas ... peu09.html
http://9elements.com/io/projects/html5/canvas/

[crumhorn]

^^^^^
Audio and Video was Steve Jobs emphasis not mine.

I'm not saying the you can't do wonderful things with HTML5. But your audience will be severely limited unless you provide multiple levels of fallback implementation. The day may come when all browsers implement these "standards" in a compatible way but I'm not holding my breath.

None of the canvas stuff you posted works in any current version of internet explorer without the "chrome frame" plug in. The canvas tag is a travesty that should never have been adopted as a standard. No integration with the DOM being the main problem. unnecessarily creating a competitor to SVG which was already a W3C standard is another.

[nebulae]

^ I don't really know what you two are saying. And that's making me feel stupid. So fuck you both for making me feel stupid.

[delicioso]

I'm not saying the you can't do wonderful things with HTML5. But your audience will be severely limited unless you provide multiple levels of fallback implementation.

That's true but when has cross-browser compatibility not been a headache? And yes, IE is the culprit most of the time. Things do look better on the horizon with how IE9 is shaping up though. The video issue has to be blamed on patents. The whole h.264/ogg patent and firefox issue is major suck to be sure and hopefully it'll get ironed out soon enough. Flash is not the answer though.

[LoopStationZebra]

The bottom line is that open Web standards are finally able to accomplish all that Flash does, not only for video but for interactive animation and drawing.

HTML5 will be able to accomplish quite a bit, but lets be clear: Very little of what has been 'promised' has actually seen the light of day; let alone implemented. You love crying about how Flash is already on the way out, but you don't know what you're talking about. If HTML5 were fully ready right now, and all browsers supported, then Flash would be dead within 18months. It's going to take 18 months just to get all the browsers to even consider full support, lol.

Most of the links you posted weren't even active, live sites. Merely examples that people are cooking up in their labs. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a far cry from replacing any number of content rich applications that Flash provides right now.

There is in fact an enormous amount of bickering going on in terms of what becomes a de facto standard - especially where video is concerned. Here's where Steve Jobs talks out of his self-serving asshole: Google and others have talked about HTML5 video in the open source Ogg video format. Jobs want's H.264 *shocking*. Even Google is hedging it's bets and purchased On2 (a popular Flash video codec, btw). Google playing both sides. Nice. Here's an interesting article:

http://www.betanews.com/article/What-do ... 1266881462

On2 gives you superior quality at lower file sizes. Eat that, Jobs. Here's hoping Google decides to release On2 into the open source community. Ouch.

[crumhorn]

^ I don't really know what you two are saying. And that's making me feel stupid. So fuck you both for making me feel stupid.

In simple terms "Jobs is lying, two faced, self serving, bastard who distorts the facts to suit his own ends."

I care about this because, in my line of work, the idiotic decisions these people make cost me hours of wasted time.

[crumhorn]

The battery life thing is a complete red herring as well. Who in their right mind would want to watch more than 6 hours of video on an iPhone/Pad/Pod. It'd hardly a big deal to recharge the thing after 6 hours solid video play back.