Faith VS Atheism

[dum]

The discussion goes nowhere but of course dum knew that when he set it up.

Really, do you think so ?
What gave it away ?

Whatever my master-plan, it didn't stop you from participating

masturbating_primates.gif

[H20nly]

I think your master plan was to make a loop. Way to keep it Ableton!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TylvUGJIi_w

[twisted-space]

Wow, what a reaction, I must have touched a nerve.

[twisted-space]

Nobody knows what causes the universe. But ultimately it must have a cause.

Why?

That is, why must it have a cause? Not why does nobody know what the cause is.
I'm also unsure why the fact that the universe exists (assuming of course that it does exist) suggests it must have a creator.

Something definitely exists (I think therefore I am).

Of course, but what? You should define what the universe is before you say that it exists. Nobody afaik has done that yet.

But it is impossible in our system of thought to conceive of something happening without something causing it.

Really? I'm afraid I must disagree.

It's not the universe that is wrong, just that our rational, symbolic thought processes are not adequate to the task of describing it.

Actually I think that we are more than capable of describing "it". We just have to figure out what "it" is.

[Hypomixolydian]

Deleted post

[H20nly]

*sigh*

[twisted-space]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHyyctxC ... re=related

Might have been posted before, but I think it may be appropriate about now.

[H20nly]

so what if a couple of monkeys were dropped off a couple LARGE NUMBER years ago to see how they would... evolve?

they were given a planet with all the resources they should need...

they made more monkeys...

discuss...


OR


through LARGE NUMBER of years monkeys finally evolved on a planet with all the resources they should need...

they made more monkeys...

discuss...






*origin of monkeys is lost to time or differing opinions... but final destination is potentially traceable.

[twisted-space]

Discuss what? Both hypotheses are possible (though I suggest it would be wise to start an experiment of that nature with more than a couple of subjects).

[H20nly]

Discuss what? Both hypotheses are possible

the other hypothesis in this thread are possible as well. unless you take them too literally.

Remember there are 9, 10, 8 planets in our solar system and we don't have a hard drive array big enough to hold the footage (or a book big enough to hold the text of every detail) of another solar system being created/spawned and then evolving to the point ours is at. nor do we have the time in our lives to watch the movie if we did.


"shoot for the moon, because even if you miss... you'll be among the stars"



*perhaps individually monkeys don't matter but collectively they do... oh wait, its all about ME.

[twisted-space]

the other hypothesis in this thread are possible as well. unless you take them too literally.

Of course.

Remember there are 9, 10, 8 planets in our solar system and we don't have a hard drive array big enough to hold the footage (or a book big enough to hold the text of every detail) of another solar system being created/spawned and then evolving to the point ours is at. nor do we have the time in our lives to watch the movie if we did.

But we can "see" back to almost the beginning of our reality, certainly to a place where there was no matter, only energy.

"shoot for the moon, because even if you miss... you'll be among the stars"

Back where we (and everything else) came from then.

*perhaps individually monkeys don't matter but collectively they do... oh wait, its all about ME.

Actually, you don't exist, it's all about me.

[H20nly]

^

I actually started to post this way earlier in the thread but forgot... I believe it was Newton that suggests energy never ceases to exist, it just takes on new form. This could account for a lot of things besides "electricity". Reincarnation could be partially supported as could the notion that the earth is an organism, and like the bacteria in our stomachs that aid in digestion, we are just part of the whole organism. Life feeds on life and continues on...

Then there is the notion that the solar system is an atom in a larger molecule and this ripples on infinitely which makes us??? what?

meh. the whole thing is beyond us and in us at the same time.

by the way, that burning bush that "crazy" ol Moses was talking to... the voice of God... when Moses basically asked who the fuck are you the reply was "I AM" (as the story goes). Which at a root level is a recognition of consciousness... much like the monkeys separating themselves from other animals implication from your link above. Duality.

You guys are right though... those fuckers knockin on your door spreading the word... hardly have the beginning of a clue.

I really feel like religion and atheism and evolution and everyone's opinion are really still all talking about the same thing. I tried to explain perception/perspective to a little boy. He of course had no grasp. So I had a bass guitar in the room. I asked him to stand in front of it (its was on its stand) and describe it to me... when he got done telling me what he saw, I told him "nu uh I don't see that, describe it again"... he did... "nu uh, you're crazy it looks like..." such and such. We went round and round with debate. He was somewhere between angry and confused when I had him step over to the side angle that I was looking at it from and asked him to explain again what it looks like.

Me "Now do you understand different perspectives"
Him "uh huh"
Me "So who was wrong?"
Him confused look returning
Me "no one, we just were looking at the same thing from 2 different angles"

He gets it. He was 6.

[H20nly]

oh and here's one more to chew on...

Hurricane Katrina did a lot of damage to the gulf coast a few years back. I used to live in Biloxi so I'm familiar with one of the two areas that it fucking nailed... which was New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf coast (fairly small strip of land). worthy of note is that all along the Mississippi Gulf coast were casinos. In fact the native coastline had little to no sand. It was swampy wetlands that eventually fade into the Gulf of Mexico. The casinos pumped in sand and made an artificial coast destroying the homes of countless animals etc. to make it more attractive. These casinos used to have to be on Riverboats and are still in fact required to be "on the water". Those casino guys (same outfits from Vegas) found a loop hole in this. They use giant buildings on stilts... in the water. From the front you can't tell. From the side (another perspective) you find the truth of the matter. That hurricane inflicted hard core damage to the area which had begun to thrive off of the Casino drawing in people from all over the Bible belt.

Meanwhile we have New Orleans holding the infamous title of murder capitol of the U.S. many years running. Also, this is a place that is very famous for and brings people from all over to celebrate Mardi Gras. Woo hoo! Show your tits! Show your tits! Which is how most people now look at Mardi Gras. What Mardi Gras really represents is a day of feast before a fast... a religious fast. Fasting is done to cleanse your body, help practice self restraint and (drum roll) to bring you closer to God... but wait... before you roll your eyes in disgust, this is hoped to be achieved from within your own temple, eh hem, I mean body. Anyway, over the years this has grown from a day to several days to several weeks of foolishness and debauchery, eh hem, I mean good times.

So what we did Katrina destroy? At a 1 to 1 level families homes. This is what we look at that makes even the most callous of us grateful that we weren't uprooted like this. But from a higher altitude, it destroyed no less than 12 Casinos (one that was a retired Navy ship was lifted and dropped down on land 100's of feet from the coast) and the murder capital's unyielding revelry in all things sinful and tainted - calling all daughters and sisters... drink this, pop that, and show us your tits!!




In biblical times this probably would have been paraphrased really easily. Something along the lines of:
And God smote the land.

[twisted-space]

He gets it. He was 6.

Amen to that!

[LoopStationZebra]

Fuck. If the number of views for this thread passes my iPad thread I'm going to kill myself.