Why do these bitches keep calling it a Book burning ???

[nuperspective]

as always bill maher nails it

"if we [americans] had got off our ass' and actually built something at ground zero in the 9 years since 9/11, then maybe we wouldnt be having this conversation"

[Machinesworking]

I'd like to say that none of this matters and that it's all a joke but who am I to second guess our collective actions.

That's where I agree with dum about your mong status. It's a non issue, doesn't matter if some idiots or all the idiots are talking about it, it never meant anything.
That assholes make it into one is no excuse for making it into an issue yourself. Even if it affects policy, even if it changes things and works wonders for the self serving control freaks that blew it up into an issue in the first place, none of that matters, it's always been wrong, a smoke and mirrors game and nothing to debate about at all. So why bring it up?

[starving student]

so where do you dissagree ?

if more people didn't bring things up like dum and yourself I'm sure we'd be in much better shape.

[Machinesworking]

so where do you dissagree ?

if more people didn't bring things up like dum and yourself I'm sure we'd be in much better shape.

You're not making any sense. This issue is bullshit, it doesn't matter, it's propaganda, it's not anything near issues like whether we should be in Afghanistan or Iraq, or whether the west should really crack down on Israel until they stop abusing their power, or whether the US government is hypocritical for bedding with tyrannical fundamentalist muslim governments like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc. and then going into epileptic fits about North Korea.

Those are real issues, this is a straw man. The bigger question is why do they need to keep this going? are we planning on expanding the wars? but those questions have no answers. See? this is a nowhere thread, no answers no solution.

Iraq? We need to GTFO! simple.
Mosque? non issue.
Get it?

[nuperspective]

so where do you dissagree ?

if more people didn't bring things up like dum and yourself I'm sure we'd be in much better shape.

You're not making any sense. This issue is bullshit, it doesn't matter, it's propaganda, it's not anything near issues like whether we should be in Afghanistan or Iraq, or whether the west should really crack down on Israel until they stop abusing their power, or whether the US government is hypocritical for bedding with tyrannical fundamentalist muslim governments like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc. and then going into epileptic fits about North Korea.

Those are real issues, this is a straw man. The bigger question is why do they need to keep this going? are we planning on expanding the wars? but those questions have no answers. See? this is a nowhere thread, no answers no solution.

Iraq? We need to GTFO! simple.
Mosque? non issue.
Get it?

bang on. care to mention there is a mosque in the pentagon and has been for a long time. that was attacked wasnt it????

[starving student]

why would you think that I brought up this issue in place of the issue of war in Iraq or afghanistan or anywhere else for that matter, you're drawing conclusions from no basis what-so-ever! For example your argument makes about as much sense as me claiming you're an idiot for not starting a thread about war in Iraq ,, so life is a roulette wheel and everyones a mong until they start a subject that you deem worthy to not neglect ?, you're usually much more reasonable than that, anyway.... the issues you brought up are important ones, we discuss those issues on this forum as well until some other dick tries to stop someone from talking about war, you've seen it. For me this is more than propaganda, you may disagree or may not even be able to fathom this notion but imho ideas are more distructive than war, that's why racist politicians are more distructive than racist running around beating people up who look different than themselves. This is the first time in a long time that a significant amount of people in this country have advocated directly and in-directly that other americans be stripped of their rights. These Ideas, and the educated people pushing them are nothing to turn a blind eye too, this is the same kind of shit that led to oklahoma, the problem with these kinds of ideas is that not enough people say something about them, we're to high-minded and too more important than those people who espouse those ideas to be bothered to confront them, ingnorance is bliss until somethnig happens and then everybody wants to know how it got to that point.


hitler was propaganda too

[nuperspective]

is it possible obama can impeach the american people for being dumb?

[starving student]

unfortunately not ^^ america is more afraid of dialogue than war

[Machinesworking]

This is the first time in a long time that a significant amount of people in this country have advocated directly and in-directly that other americans be stripped of their rights.

Not at all true, not going to happen, they might bully them into changing the location of the center, but that's about it. It's far less of a threat to civil liberties than the selective hassling of people at airports, phone tapping, or other profiling issues out there. Again, what it is is a distraction from real issues, just like flag burning, welfare fraud talk, of whether Obama has quit smoking or not etc. It's a non issue, it's not half as important as other issues, and IMO again, is just a distraction to rally people behind based on opinion alone with no basis at all in the law. It serves to keep you occupied on the stupid little things while they go about getting you to elect presidents, democrat or republican, that continue unproductive wars while we're in a recession.
They can't legally stop them, it's all about creating controversy where there is none. So the question is why? Why do they need to? One answer is it keeps Obama and his flunkies from even harboring the thought of pulling out of the middle east. This seems to me to be the most logical conclusion, press salt into the collective wound of the american people to keep them voting for hawks. We're not going to outlaw muslims in the USA, but we'll kill a shit ton of them in their own lands without any thought at all if we're constantly told that muslims that don't like our politics ( military intervention into their countries as a right of the USA ), are all terrorists.

This is so transparent IMO that it's not worth all the conversation about it, it's a publicity stunt on the part of pundits who want to keep the wars alive. A non issue to rally stupid people, and keep the left talking about and defending this non issue instead of concentrating on the fact that we're involved in two wars as stupid and meaningless as Vietnam.

[beats me]

Here's the better question. WHY THE FUCK IS THE SITE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER STILL A BIG GAPING HOLE IN THE GROUND 9 YEARS LATER?!?! It's an embarrassment that says to the whole world we're lazy, uninspired, and as demonstrated globally really great with destruction with no clue how to rebuild...even on our own soil.

Then we have the government sitting around tables struggling with coming up with projects to help unemployment and the economy. "Can anybody think of a project that would employ a lot of people with long term results? Anybody? Anything at all? Nothing? OK".

[djsynchro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjRQwvnjpPw

Old and still true.
And funny as fuck

[Unfazed]

30,000 people a year die of gunshot wounds in the Land of the Free, and 100,000 are permanently maimed.

During Gulf War 1, an American warship shot down an Iranian passenger plane returning with pilgrims from the Haj, killing over 300 people. That atrocity occured several months before the Lockerby atrocity. No-one was prosecuted for mass murder. The excuse given at the time was that the plane was mistaken for a fighter jet; later the excuse became that it was supposed to have been carrying spy cameras.

[djsynchro]

There were brown people on that plane.

[starving student]

This is the first time in a long time that a significant amount of people in this country have advocated directly and in-directly that other americans be stripped of their rights.

Not at all true, not going to happen, they might bully them into changing the location of the center, but that's about it. It's far less of a threat to civil liberties than the selective hassling of people at airports, phone tapping, or other profiling issues out there. Again, what it is is a distraction from real issues, just like flag burning, welfare fraud talk, of whether Obama has quit smoking or not etc. It's a non issue, it's not half as important as other issues, and IMO again, is just a distraction to rally people behind based on opinion alone with no basis at all in the law. It serves to keep you occupied on the stupid little things while they go about getting you to elect presidents, democrat or republican, that continue unproductive wars while we're in a recession.
They can't legally stop them, it's all about creating controversy where there is none. So the question is why? Why do they need to? One answer is it keeps Obama and his flunkies from even harboring the thought of pulling out of the middle east. This seems to me to be the most logical conclusion, press salt into the collective wound of the american people to keep them voting for hawks. We're not going to outlaw muslims in the USA, but we'll kill a shit ton of them in their own lands without any thought at all if we're constantly told that muslims that don't like our politics ( military intervention into their countries as a right of the USA ), are all terrorists.

This is so transparent IMO that it's not worth all the conversation about it, it's a publicity stunt on the part of pundits who want to keep the wars alive. A non issue to rally stupid people, and keep the left talking about and defending this non issue instead of concentrating on the fact that we're involved in two wars as stupid and meaningless as Vietnam.

You know I think you are right, but just wrong about the proapaganda, the real problem is that you and I who have similar ideals are fighting while those who don't share our ideals by any stretch of the imagination look on and laugh. This is why rightwing talk radio is so successful and the other sides, and there is more than just one other side are not successful, because while you feel you are doing more by fighting with me, your real enemies are framing the debate. This is also why even when the right wing is in the minority, they still are more powerful, and still push their agendas farther. and thats not to say there's too much difference between them and the leftwing, but there are differences.

there are multiple levels to everything we're talking about, not just the level you prefer to exist on and they all play their roles, whether you like it or not there is the level where people shout you can't build somethng here, and where other people shout yes they can, this is the level where seeds are planted, you'll see their effects in the coming elections and legislation after that. The concept of rights and the notions there of don't exist in a vacuum, you have to be diligent and challenge any concepts to the contrary whenever and where ever they come up, so you think it's a waste of time and a distraction but speaking up for the rights of people can never be such things, for example you would have proably been among the voices that said the japanese don't have to worry about being put in camps, this is america, it's a non-issue (as you like to say) don't believe the hype or whatever but constitution or not it happened, and you can bet that those americans who went through that pay close attention to this kind of rhetoric.

[Machinesworking]

for example you would have proably been among the voices that said the japanese don't have to worry about being put in camps, this is america, it's a non-issue (as you like to say) don't believe the hype or whatever but constitution or not it happened...

This sort of bullshit is why it's hard to talk with you about politics. Earlier in the same post you're all going off about how the left is divided etc. well it's because of these sort of idiotic assumptions on your part that make it so. You're so interested in defending your thread about some republican propaganda that you're calling other people who disagree with you complacent, and as I've said many times in this thread, this is a non issue in light of the fact we're involved in wars that make no sense, and we're not talking about that, we're talking about propaganda. Even better, you're OK with conservative views on this, because they also think it's worth talking about, yet when someone points out that it's a distraction from real issues, you act like a dick and make unfounded statements like above.