911 was an inside job ?

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production

Was 911 an inside job ?

Of course
19
32%
Possibly
13
22%
Probably
10
17%
I don't think so
7
12%
No
11
18%
 
Total votes: 60

Cryptic UK
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by Cryptic UK » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:25 pm

ChiDJ wrote:I stay away from this shit for a reason.
Do you.
Drums

dum
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by dum » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:52 pm

McQ714 wrote:do any of you idiots realize how much oil we already have in the US? it's just that getting it from the middle east is cheaperdue to labor rates. so oil companies focus their efforts over there rather than here.
Holy Fuck.

Literally the stupidest shit I've ever read in my life.

You ought to be tarred, feathered and pelted with balls of your own dookie for that one.


No wonder mongissary has taken a shine to you :lol:
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

mojofunk
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by mojofunk » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:19 pm

Yep - there are too many ants on this hill. Perhaps the United States, Russia, United Kingdom, France, China, India, Israel, Pakistan, & North Korea could help us out of this impending difficulty? I eagerly anticipate the culmination of this folly.

Last centuries capitalist vs communist skirmish was childs play compared to this centuries Christian vs Muslim wars which have just begun.

v0ins315
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by v0ins315 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:21 pm

Just do it!
Cool Character wrote:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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mikemc
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by mikemc » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:47 pm

Emissary wrote: Biofuel is a non starter as you would need all the arable land in america just to power the amount of traffic in america, leaving nothing to eat.
This is actually not true. Algal biofuels have been developed as well as fuels using inedible biomass. There is a lot, but limited amount of land to be used for feed crops in the US, but ample areas for non-feed biomass and algal biofuel production.

I would say that at this point it is a matter of time until the various solutions to the energy problem will be found, and there is a lot of high-level playing around that will occur to shorten or lengthen that time.

The trick is to ensure that when the most viable assortment of alternative sources for energy are found and widely distributed, that the world isn't tempted to go back to petroleum sources for fuel, whose prices will fall. The price of gas is where it is for a reason: the reason is that if it gets more expensive, alternatives become much more viable that much more quickly.

[edit] The "upcost" for oil [edit, just wrong] INside the large oil producing regions in near and central asia is cheaper, that is one reason that getting oil there is economical, it is easier to get out of the ground. Another reason is the terms that the oil companies have worked out, whereby they basically pay for the governments of those areas. Oil needs to be a certain price per barrel for those governments to keep afloat.

When oil is not that price, those areas will collapse, and the rest of the world needs to be well clear of that through developing new energy sources.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:24 pm

/boycott
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Emissary
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by Emissary » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:28 am

mikemc wrote:
Emissary wrote: Biofuel is a non starter as you would need all the arable land in america just to power the amount of traffic in america, leaving nothing to eat.
This is actually not true. Algal biofuels have been developed as well as fuels using inedible biomass. There is a lot, but limited amount of land to be used for feed crops in the US, but ample areas for non-feed biomass and algal biofuel production.

I would say that at this point it is a matter of time until the various solutions to the energy problem will be found, and there is a lot of high-level playing around that will occur to shorten or lengthen that time.

The trick is to ensure that when the most viable assortment of alternative sources for energy are found and widely distributed, that the world isn't tempted to go back to petroleum sources for fuel, whose prices will fall. The price of gas is where it is for a reason: the reason is that if it gets more expensive, alternatives become much more viable that much more quickly.

[edit] The "upcost" for oil [edit, just wrong] INside the large oil producing regions in near and central asia is cheaper, that is one reason that getting oil there is economical, it is easier to get out of the ground. Another reason is the terms that the oil companies have worked out, whereby they basically pay for the governments of those areas. Oil needs to be a certain price per barrel for those governments to keep afloat.

When oil is not that price, those areas will collapse, and the rest of the world needs to be well clear of that through developing new energy sources.
How are we going to fertilise the ground to grow the biofuels and keep the insects away without fossil fuels. The Plains of america,canada,russia are all totally dead. As for Algae the EROIE will be extremely low. Either your relying on the sun to grow it or your relying on huge lamps (which will need to be powered) I'm aware there is some research done into algae that doesn't need light to grow, but in all truthfulness you can't expect this to make up in anyway for even 3% of the energy we use today.

I don't deny that new energy forms will come about in future and become more viable as more money (which is a symbol of energy) is spent on them. The problem is we are going to have to rely on current energy flow from the sun to survive in future. At the moment we survive on billions of years of stored solar energy (fossil fuels) and to drop back to using the current flow of energy from the sun will require a huge population reduction (possibly as much as 2/3rds. All the world leaders know this is going to have to happen eventually, they just don't know how to go about it. Depending on your world view they could all be in collusion and fabricate a huge world war or outbreak of something. Or my personal view that they are all a bunch of money grabbing idiots who will do whatever it takes to stay in power a few more days than their neighbor country. When energy gets short, things get expensive, when things get expensive population gets angry, when populations get angry nationalists take control, when nationalists take control we have wars, when we have wars infrastructure gets destroyed. We wont have the energy to build our way out of another world war for a very long time. Personally I'm looking at a good 400-500 years of a second dark ages before a 2nd renaissance . Music should be interesting at least.

mikemc
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by mikemc » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:05 pm

Emissary wrote: hell in a handbasket, I tell you!!!
If you are dead set on "them" causing the world plunging into a new medieval age I'm sure I can't talk you out of it... what to say...?

How about "I agree that population growth is a key thing to maintain in a rational way" ?

Emissary
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by Emissary » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:31 am

mikemc wrote:
Emissary wrote: hell in a handbasket, I tell you!!!
If you are dead set on "them" causing the world plunging into a new medieval age I'm sure I can't talk you out of it... what to say...?

How about "I agree that population growth is a key thing to maintain in a rational way" ?
Please re read my statement.

"Depending on YOUR world view THEY could all be in collusion and fabricate a huge world war or outbreak of something. Or MY personal view that they are all a bunch of money grabbing idiots who will do whatever it takes to stay in power a few more days than their neighbor country"

Hence MY personal view is that THEY are indeed US, just a bunch of money seeking egomaniacs . But i am aware others think there is a secret society called the NWO destined to wipe us all out. I have no evidence to refute this claim so a discussion is pointless.

Emissary
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by Emissary » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:45 am

1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition at World Trade Center on 9/11

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20100907/pl_usnw/DC60870

Guff Tong
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by Guff Tong » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:29 am

Even if the man-labour is cheaper - the associated products needed to extract, store and transort the black shit is a global standard.

Big OEM companies like Shell & BP pay top dollar to smaller supplly companies like transocean, gardner denver, emco wheaton etc.. for the hardware needed.

In fact, I'll add that most of the local skilled workers and engineers in these 'third world' countries are pulling in decent, comparable wages and there are more of the same that are from the 'free west' earning a tidy penny out there too.

..The company I work for manufacture safety quick-closure breakaway valves for general fluid transfer, ship to shore, rig etc... and belive me, theres some serious mullar to be made aside from the price of a barrel of crude.

(Last week one US company paid 12 grand to charter a private jet to ship some 20 quid O-rings needed to get thier breakaway units up and running as they were loosing 2.3 million $ a day haiving them out of service)

--------

(I reckon it was the Chinese Petroleum Corpotation anyway; they're the fuckers to watch out for with thier bulk buying of any steel reserves, pushing the prices up, and the closed shop/honour menatlity) ;)

leedsquietman
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by leedsquietman » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:40 pm

The explosive conspiracy theory is well presented (seen it on 2 documentaries here) but don't forget that as well that there are many more architects who refuse to link themselves to the cause and who question it, there are probably 100,000 plus architects and engineers in the USA, the majority of whom do not associate themselves with this breakout group.

On the documentaries I saw other architects and engineers also countered that with their own plausible theories to suggest there was no explosive detonation (which also was well presented). I'm not a professional in these matters, so I can't say who is right, but to me, the numbers are important - on the total 1300 professionals being part of a group supporting conspiracy vs 100,000 who are not with it, with a significant number of those being completely against it.

It's a bit like watching some 'you the jury decide' on the documentaries I saw.
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glenn303
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by glenn303 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:40 pm

Emissary wrote:
mikemc wrote:
Emissary wrote: hell in a handbasket, I tell you!!!
If you are dead set on "them" causing the world plunging into a new medieval age I'm sure I can't talk you out of it... what to say...?

How about "I agree that population growth is a key thing to maintain in a rational way" ?
Please re read my statement.

"Depending on YOUR world view THEY could all be in collusion and fabricate a huge world war or outbreak of something. Or MY personal view that they are all a bunch of money grabbing idiots who will do whatever it takes to stay in power a few more days than their neighbor country"

Hence MY personal view is that THEY are indeed US, just a bunch of money seeking egomaniacs . But i am aware others think there is a secret society called the NWO destined to wipe us all out. I have no evidence to refute this claim so a discussion is pointless.
These guys?
Image :lol:

mikemc
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by mikemc » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:49 am

Emissary wrote:
Please re read my statement.

"Depending on YOUR world view ...
I did read your statement before commenting, and when I got to that qualifier everything else after was rendered "it depends". But you state your view more succinctly, so I'll respond to that:

It is the case that when people are "haves" they continue to want to have: in many ways that becomes their core mission. But the "haves'" human nature is not different from the "have nots" human nature, because when have-nots become haves they exhibit the same behavior.

I'd say that most all people are trained and encouraged to pursue "greed fulfillment", many of civilization's institutions are geared towards this.

What Guff Tong said about the lucre to be made in the petroleum business: big ocean oil rigs can cost a billion dollars. How many barrels of oil does the company paying for it need to bring up before it pays for itself? Somewhere around 12-15 million depending on the price of oil per barrel. But tens of thousands of barrels can be produced from a single well in a day, at around $70 a barrel it might take less than a year to pay it off.

Emissary
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Re: 911 was an inside job ?

Post by Emissary » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:41 am

mikemc wrote:
Emissary wrote:
Please re read my statement.

"Depending on YOUR world view ...
I did read your statement before commenting, and when I got to that qualifier everything else after was rendered "it depends". But you state your view more succinctly, so I'll respond to that:

It is the case that when people are "haves" they continue to want to have: in many ways that becomes their core mission. But the "haves'" human nature is not different from the "have nots" human nature, because when have-nots become haves they exhibit the same behavior.

I'd say that most all people are trained and encouraged to pursue "greed fulfillment", many of civilization's institutions are geared towards this.

What Guff Tong said about the lucre to be made in the petroleum business: big ocean oil rigs can cost a billion dollars. How many barrels of oil does the company paying for it need to bring up before it pays for itself? Somewhere around 12-15 million depending on the price of oil per barrel. But tens of thousands of barrels can be produced from a single well in a day, at around $70 a barrel it might take less than a year to pay it off.
This is perfectly true. I have no debate with this. Removing oil from deep sea and from tar sands is far more expensive than on shore oil fields. This means that it takes longer for companies to make a profit. It's therefore axiomatic to know that we have passed or at least at peak oil, because we know companies have to make the most profit available and we know off shore and tar sands are the least profitable and most ecologically damaging way to retrieve oil so we know that oil companies and governments are at least acting as if peak oil has come about.

Regarding the price of oil, we are walking a tightrope at the moment, because of the increased price to recover the oil, the market oil prices need to be kept high to pay for the exploration and recovery. If they collapse then so do the oil companies, no oil companies no oil. If oil prices get too high again like they did in 2008/2007 then prices increase in all sectors of the economy. This causes a decline in profit margins and disposable income in the populous. And we saw what happened when people stop buying things. Everything that has happened in the last five years is on the road map that peak oil has been predicting for the last 20 years.

People misunderstand peak oil. Peak Oil is the midpoint in oil reserves. We still have as much oil left in the ground as we have used up since the start of oil exploitation. But it get exponentially more expensive to recover every week. At the moment we are on the "bumpy plateau" This being the point after an economic collapse where we have spare capacity of oil because the world is basically in a depression and using much less oil than it did before the collapse. People have to understand we are never going to recover from the economic crash. We will bumble along until the even the capacity we need whilst in a depression is too high to be served by the remaining oil fields profitably. We are in the collapse, its time to start building lifeboats within your community using whatever skills (music being one of them) you have available.

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