Ableton Forum

LoopStationZebra wrote:

MPGK wrote: Touchy controllers are not apt for rugged live "work"

And this is based on the countless number of road hours you've logged with a Lemur or iPad?

Kill yourself.

You must have skipped the personal opinion part.

If your live performance consists of standing behind a table, bobbing your head and gently sliding your finger across a glass surface to turn up the chorus on your xylophone samples, then the iPad may be the right controller for you.

Me, I'm barreling along the stage like a rabid chimp on speed while screaming at the top of my smoker's lung. I need something physical to grab on to if I still want to maintain a right amount of control over the rest of the sounds playing. I don't need more than my live experiences so far to know that a touch controller would be the wrong choice for that.

Is it time for a "In soviet russia……" quip in this thread yet?

How about a "In c mmunist china….." quip?

These are heady days people. HEADY days, indeed.

The announcement today that Molten is now available with FULL MIDI support - including clock sync both ways - is GAME CHANGING.

I've been furiously purchasing music apps over the past 2 days and, well, I've seen the future of live digital music.

The future is NOT some antiquated notion of using any kind of DAW as a performance tool.

The future is NOT spending shitloads of money on AUs/VSTs, softsynths, etc.

The future of live playing is the iPad.

Molten for the iPad. omfg. I've bought this app, and it's fucking KILLER. My GOD. The fun and totally unique way to program beats/adjust velocity is breathtaking.

I also picked up the Kork iMS-20 synth app. Don't know what to say about this other than APP OF THE FUCKING YEAR.
The power of this app is nothing short of phenominal. The sound is amazing, and the fun factor is a solid 10.


The most important thing I've realized over the past 2 days? This shit is FUN. Going back to Live during practice/rehearsal time is nothing short of a total drag. Not only are the graphics and interface completely dull and uninspired, but dealing with the hamfisted methodology of finding your way around is meh. Thank goodness for touchAble - which allows me to spend as little time within the Ableton Live environment as fucking possible.

Do you know what the challenge is that Ableton faces for Live 9 and beyond?
The challenge for Ableton is to not bore me to fucking death.

Well, kids.

Looks like Jailbreaking my iPad is in my immediate future. Why?

Because if I want my iMS-20 or Molten to keep running in the background whilst I flip over to touchAble, I'm going to need TRUE multitasking.

LoopStationZebra wrote:Well, kids.

Looks like Jailbreaking my iPad is in my immediate future. Why?

Because if I want my iMS-20 or Molten to keep running in the background whilst I flip over to touchAble, I'm going to need TRUE multitasking.

Every time an idevice gets jailbroken an Apple hater gets laid.

Possibly resulting in the unplanned birth of another future knuckle dragging Walmart frequenter who the entire local PD knows on a first name basis.

Yes, I know beats. I know. Beeeeeliiieve me.

But true multitasking awaits; and with that the ability to fucking take iPad music and instruments to a heretofore unseen level.

The good thing is that a factor reset puts everything back to normal.

So if I wanted to do the full spectrum of input and output audio, video, and MIDI it looks like I'd have to get the camera kit adaptor, VGA adaptor, AND the Line 6 MIDI adaptor…all depending on what app can use what.

My main question is it says some music apps can now be controlled by a hardware MIDI controller but does that also mean it can be controlled by a DAW…and if so I have no idea what adapter would be needed and what kind of routing.

Beats, welcome to MY FUCKING NIGHTMARE over the last few days.

The lack of comprehensive info out there for MIDI support from apps to hardware/apps to DAW is nothing short of total SHIT.
I've been piecemealing stuff together, but it's been a challenge.

A few things I've learned (I think)

MIDI CONNECTIONS
Camera Connection Kit - For connecting only to a piece of hardware (synth or controller)
The camera connection kit, on it's own, is only for connecting a piece of hardware directly to the iPad via the USB cable that comes with the hardware. Lots of YouTube videos on this MIDI connection type.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkvL3PMILyw


Camera Connection Kit with A USB-to-MIDI adaptor - for connecting to hardware or soundcard/DAW
I've not seen any examples of this, but I've certainly run into people on forums who are using this method. For instance, the Connection kit with the M-Audio MIDI Uno:






Line 6 MIDI Mobilizer - for connecting to hardware or soundcard/DAW
So far this seems to be the most popular method, but only because you could do it prior to iOS4.2. At $70, this method is about the same amount of money as buying a camera connection kit and USB-to-MIDI adaptor. Many people seem to think that the Line 6 MIDI Mobilizer is more robust, reliable, and elegant. *shrug* The reviews have been nothing short of glowing, so....

Now that CoreMIDI is here, apparently the MIDI Mobilizer will work with any MIDI hub for a connection to your DAW (though I cannot positively confirm this). But what about the hardware? Do companies still have to be licensed? Do the app developers need to be licensed? Not sure, but I suspect so. Lost yet? Me too.

I can tell you this, if the Line6 isn't going to be as versatile, providing a true open MIDI connection like the cam conn kit/USB-To-MIDI cable combo, that fucker is going back to the store.


MIDI over WIFI using the Mac's MIDI Networking - for connecting to your computer/DAW
An exciting option to be sure. So far the only app I've seen that officially has this feature is Molten, and I'm going to try it out shortly. Obviously this is the same deal as touchAble or Griid: You'll need to do this via an ad-hoc network or wireless router network.


MIDI over WIFI using 3rd party MIDI Networking - for connecting to your computer/DAW
Free wifi MIDI apps like DSMI are another option. Pianst Pro works with DSMI, but damned if I can get it to properly record notes in Live.



THE APPS AND MIDI TYPE
What Apps Use What?
Here is where things start to completely fall apart and get wonky. All apps that now have MIDI support will state as such on their websites or in the iTunes descriptions. What they DON'T fucking tell you is whether or not any other options are supported. For instance, the NLogSynth app says it will work with either the Camera Connection Kit, or the Line6 MIDI Mobilizer. Okay, cool. More is fucking BETTER. But will the app be able to work with a connection kit and USB-To-MIDI adaptor and then be able to be connected to your DAW? Who the fuck knows. WRETCHED.

The amazing iMS-20 Korg app now supports MIDI. It says it uses the Camera Connection Kit for connection to external devices. Uh, yeah. What about the MIDI Mobilizer? Some folks have reported that it doesn't work. What about the cam connection kit and the USB-to-MIDI adaptor? The Korg manual should have more fucking info on this, but....nothing. Fail. Note: My Line6 just arrived and I'm going to test it out later.
UPDATE: Korg just announced that only MIDI IN is being supported. omfg. FUCK YOU, KORG.


It's In The Hands of The APP Developers
The NLog Synth folks have the answer: The more MIDI connection options, the better. If there's not options, pretty soon it'll be like Android World - where every fucking app dev is doing something different and - even though it's MIDI - you may have to keep buying new connection kits to meet whatever the dev comes up with.




MOTHERFUCKING CLOCK SYNC
The ONE feature that raises these apps to a true performance tool, and nobody seems to care.
Honestly this is the most overlooked bit so far on all sides. It's fucking pathetic. The only app/developer that has said shit about clock sync is the Molten folks.



SUMMARY
Congratulations to all app developers out there for completely fucking up the entire realm of MIDI implementation for iOS4.2 You fucking douchebag mongs. Apple has given you, By The Grace of God and Steve Jobs, a beautiful device and fantastic OS update. But you have squandered their Good Graces and given us an unadulterated fucking MESS. You rat fucking bastards. (except the Molten and NLog folks. They, at least, have gotten it partially right.)

We want, without delay:

1. MIDI via cam connection kit
2. MIDI via the Line6 MIDI Mobilizer
3. MIDI via wifi through onboard Apple MIDI networking or PC MIDI networking.
4. Full MIDI implementation including clock sync.

Wow Loops, you're dedicated. You've been acting most unfriendly towards me in this thread, but I respect your passion.

The ENTIRE FUTURE OF THE HUMAN RACE DEPENDS ON PROPER IPAD MIDI IMPLEMENTATION.

@ LSZ.

My thoughts on the MIDI implementation didn't get much past a few word bubbles. You're in graphic novel territory right now with your thoughts and experience.

Plugged in my Akai LPK25 keyboard over the weekend, and it actually sorta worked right away in the Korg iMS20. Well, it allows you to control 'Drum 2' but nothing else as far as I can see. Hopefully im missing something or they implement a way to assign controllers to any instrument in the future, ive been having fun creating a track or two in the iMS-20 the last few weeks and having a fully assignable keyboard on the run would speed things up quite a bit

Also tried plugging my Saffire 6 audio interface just for kicks, but it said it required too much power. Hmm, what else to try plugging in this thing...