TOP 20 Hits produced with Ableton !!!

[Gaetano CAPUANO]

I have been wondering the same thing carpet cleaner.

[henke]

I would phrase the question differently:

Why on earth would people spend a significant amount of money on a Digidesign ICON console or something similar, and what have the 100+ developers who are working on ProTools since 20 years done wrong if the product would not do the main job it is designed for better than Live?

And better means: workflow optimized for handling the task of editing and mixing. The difference is not the sound of the engine, its the workflow. And as far as analog consoles are concerned, of course it adds color if you pipe the stems from a DAW thru a nicely designed console. And of course it helps making great mixes if you have nice smooth physical faders.

But there is another correlation: People who can afford those things also have fantastic sounding rooms. If they would mix straight in Live in such rooms their products would still sound better than what people do in their bedrooms. And if the people with these rooms and their PT HD rigs have all that stuff, of course they prefer to mix with their consoles than with the mouse or midi faders in Live.

Robert

Right, clear answer.
I was just saying, for electronic music, if almost everything is made in Live, I don't see the point of exporting the stems to import them back in pro tools or logic or cubase etc...
I love my track the way I recorded it in the arrangement view (in live). What else am I gonna do in logic again? If it's purely for mixing, moving faders, and using eq/comp vsts, I don't see the point going through the hassle of using another tool again to finish project. That's all what I am wondering.

It seems that all these debates can be split in two sections: a) those people who like to mix in some kind of analog environment. And those who like to have all the comfort of the big mixing DAWs including their control hardware. If you personally are happy with how your mix sounds in Live there is no reason to export anything in LogicProtoolsEtc. However, piping individual stems thru an analog stage and re-record them can add a lot of character to your music, and being able to mix without a mouse on a nice console can add feeling to the mix too. Since the engines of PTEtc do not need to be able to react to stuff like instant triggering of clips and other Live specific aspects, they can be optimized for high track count. On the same hardware you can most likely play back more audio tracks at lower latency in PT than in Live. And if you want to mix on an analog console you would need lots of analog outputs on your DAW at the same time. PT is from a time where audio playback alone was a huge task. It is as optimized for this as much as possible, including a nice management for playing back audio from arrays of HDs.

So this all gives good reasons to export stuff to PT and finish it there. Another reason is some of the detail editing features in PT, like the ability to actually draw in the audio waveform. Not very important for electronic music, but for getting rid of a click in a real recording this can be a huge time saver.

At the end it all comes down to the usual compromises you do in regards of workflow. Do the benefits of PT justify the effort to export the stems from Live into it? If you have a studio assistant anyway, who could do this for you whilst you have a lunch break the answer is yes! If you have to do it by yourself, I have doubts. And there are always interesting "hybrid" approaches:

A good friend of mine who is a sound genius with notoriously bad money management skills makes amazing mixes for high profile clients with this setup:

He got himself a bunch of *very* nice sounding analog tools; compressors, analog EQs etc. but only enough units to build one single FX chain. He is basically re-recording channel by channel of a mix thru this setup. Afterwards he is summing it all internally in Nuendo, his preferred workstation, and mixes internally in that DAW. Another good friend uses a similar approach; he is mainly using drum machines and the MPC. He pipes his audio thru a similar chain of analog effects before recording into Live.

I guess what to learn from all that is, that there are many valid approaches when it comes to mixing and finalizing stuff and that the decision about which platform to use is not nearly as straight forward or obvious as it might look like. And to loop back to the initial topic: I personally find most chart stuff sounds shockingly SHOCKINGLY bad. Watered down mid-rangy, overcompressed and dead. Optimized to be good on cheap car stereos or as mp3 via cheap headphones. And yes, Live can do that kind of sound too

Robert

[Moody]

Get back in the tub.Eat some reds and try to calm down.Smoke some grass.Shoot some fucking smack.Shit, man, do whateveryou gotta do...

[dton]

Anything done by Telefon Tel Aviv. Also, NIN's Year Zero has been done mostly in Live.

[rcpunker]

Strictly Ableton, but with hardware recorded and VST's !!!
VST effects can be used too.

Reason or any other ReWire allowed too...
Ableton as main DAW !!!

No other DAW's involved...



Any genre any charts !!! (..no discrimination on that... )

^the OP is pinpointing towards "strictly Ableton(Live)",so, the question still lingers....

[The Carpet Cleaner]

I would phrase the question differently:

Why on earth would people spend a significant amount of money on a Digidesign ICON console or something similar, and what have the 100+ developers who are working on ProTools since 20 years done wrong if the product would not do the main job it is designed for better than Live?

And better means: workflow optimized for handling the task of editing and mixing. The difference is not the sound of the engine, its the workflow. And as far as analog consoles are concerned, of course it adds color if you pipe the stems from a DAW thru a nicely designed console. And of course it helps making great mixes if you have nice smooth physical faders.

But there is another correlation: People who can afford those things also have fantastic sounding rooms. If they would mix straight in Live in such rooms their products would still sound better than what people do in their bedrooms. And if the people with these rooms and their PT HD rigs have all that stuff, of course they prefer to mix with their consoles than with the mouse or midi faders in Live.

Robert

Right, clear answer.
I was just saying, for electronic music, if almost everything is made in Live, I don't see the point of exporting the stems to import them back in pro tools or logic or cubase etc...
I love my track the way I recorded it in the arrangement view (in live). What else am I gonna do in logic again? If it's purely for mixing, moving faders, and using eq/comp vsts, I don't see the point going through the hassle of using another tool again to finish project. That's all what I am wondering.

It seems that all these debates can be split in two sections: a) those people who like to mix in some kind of analog environment. And those who like to have all the comfort of the big mixing DAWs including their control hardware. If you personally are happy with how your mix sounds in Live there is no reason to export anything in LogicProtoolsEtc. However, piping individual stems thru an analog stage and re-record them can add a lot of character to your music, and being able to mix without a mouse on a nice console can add feeling to the mix too. Since the engines of PTEtc do not need to be able to react to stuff like instant triggering of clips and other Live specific aspects, they can be optimized for high track count. On the same hardware you can most likely play back more audio tracks at lower latency in PT than in Live. And if you want to mix on an analog console you would need lots of analog outputs on your DAW at the same time. PT is from a time where audio playback alone was a huge task. It is as optimized for this as much as possible, including a nice management for playing back audio from arrays of HDs.

So this all gives good reasons to export stuff to PT and finish it there. Another reason is some of the detail editing features in PT, like the ability to actually draw in the audio waveform. Not very important for electronic music, but for getting rid of a click in a real recording this can be a huge time saver.

At the end it all comes down to the usual compromises you do in regards of workflow. Do the benefits of PT justify the effort to export the stems from Live into it? If you have a studio assistant anyway, who could do this for you whilst you have a lunch break the answer is yes! If you have to do it by yourself, I have doubts. And there are always interesting "hybrid" approaches:

A good friend of mine who is a sound genius with notoriously bad money management skills makes amazing mixes for high profile clients with this setup:

He got himself a bunch of *very* nice sounding analog tools; compressors, analog EQs etc. but only enough units to build one single FX chain. He is basically re-recording channel by channel of a mix thru this setup. Afterwards he is summing it all internally in Nuendo, his preferred workstation, and mixes internally in that DAW. Another good friend uses a similar approach; he is mainly using drum machines and the MPC. He pipes his audio thru a similar chain of analog effects before recording into Live.

I guess what to learn from all that is, that there are many valid approaches when it comes to mixing and finalizing stuff and that the decision about which platform to use is not nearly as straight forward or obvious as it might look like. And to loop back to the initial topic: I personally find most chart stuff sounds shockingly SHOCKINGLY bad. Watered down mid-rangy, overcompressed and dead. Optimized to be good on cheap car stereos or as mp3 via cheap headphones. And yes, Live can do that kind of sound too

Robert

Great answer, as usual by Mr Henke.
Yea I didn't think about all the latency problem that you might have involving another analogue mixing desk, etc...
And now, thanks to you, I definitly want an assistant to do all the boring task ! 3Phase maybe?

[macmurphy]

3Phase maybe?

who?

[Gaetano CAPUANO]

3Phase maybe?

who?

I never heard of em.........

[esky]

New Future Music Magazine features a guy called Joachim Garraud who produces with David Guetta.
http://www.youtube.com/futuremusicmagazine
He obviously uses Live...

[ikeaboy]

I haven't heard anything worth listening in any "Top Poop 20 Charts" since early 90's... Screw you all "career chasers"... You are responsible of degeneration of the common taste...
All these Deadmauses, Swedish House Maffias, Lady Gagas - they sound all the same. Overcompressed lobotomized dunka dunka for deaf rednecks... They're all nothing but products - produced to generate profit only.
They have as much to do with music as McDonald's has with food. Real food I mean... If you're really find "Poop Charts" so tempting, do your homework. There is a book you ought to know.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~ithompson/ ... manual.pdf
And realize that Live is just a tool (really good one...) to make music. You can create music without it as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiInBOVHpO8
Wake up Young Ones, commercialism is eating up it's spawn eventually...

Thanks for the link to the manual. Very entertaining read. I was surprised by their insight into the demise of the major labels back in 88. Sorry OT

[lmg Movies]

Dear Friend I have Made few Songs in Ableton Pls Find them on YouTube by Searching
YENNAR GANAPATI BAPPY BY LAXMAN GUTTE

OR
search My Channel name: lmghomeproduction

[oratowsky]

wow old thread, how times have changed

lol @ ableton 'summing issue'



Drake - Sneakin'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLhGk9zQxpQ

Justin Bieber - Where Are U Now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mY5FNRh0h4

Clean Bandit - Rockabye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skuQyvgcxfE

Mura Masa - What If I Go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ReqVnwHLE

[H20nly]

wow old thread, how times have changed

yeah, even henke still bothered back then.

[Da hand]

lol @ ableton 'summing issue'

Lol, I didn't realise that this was an old thread until the "summing issue" came up....then I was like, wait a minute, what? I haven't heard that one for a long time.... ah 2011 of course...