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BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:24 am
by 9V
How can one be banned? I mean, if i criticize a product or ableton, will i be banned? I tried (not here) to express my complaints about a musical product which i've been using for 10 years, but i've been BANNED. Then I was upset, after 10 years of (free of charge) betatesting, money and energy spent, they treat me like a thief. I wanted to discuss about this very harsh, rude behaviour in another audio forum, but the moderator told me it was kind of a "vendetta" (?!) and banned me! 8O

How does it work here? Will they ban me at once, like in the other forums if i talk about my (bad) impressions about the policy of a product?

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:52 pm
by 9V
the fact is i am a live ableton user since version 4, but i started with reason in 2001-2002. Actually, i bought Live 4 because of propellerhead no-vst support, they said us "use rewire", and I believed it worked as a vst replacement. What I want to talk about is REWIRE and its limitations. I am a registered user, not a pirate. I am a loyal customer, both of ableton and propellerhead (for almost ten years now). But, after i wrote this here on Propellerhead forum, they have BANNED me, as if i was a thief!

i am a reason user since 2001-2002. At that time it was a REAL alternative to vst based DAWS, so light... simple... wonderful. VST were little crappy toys and/or big crashing elephants. Cubase crashed 9 times out of ten, otherwise it froze LOL. Reason was something different, and we were the pioneers. It was when Ernst (the boss) was a pioneer, too, and was against audio tracks in reason, against the dongles... At that time the vst support request was a real nonsense, and rewire was enough. But reason was not a daw, it was the GUI. It had a toyish "sequencer" (so to speak) with little squares, stuck at 4/4 time etc. Many users asked for reason instruments in vst format, not for vst support. Nowadays reason is a daw, but not complete for musicians, because of the lack of vst support and no midi out above all. Maybe reason users are a different target nowadays: young people "PS" generation who want something more to make music and/or guitarists/singers who need to record their demo easily. Professional and/or semiprofessional users bye bye… Or maybe the pioneers have become creative marketing strategies gurus?...

Now, my question is: what is happening to freedom of speech?! How is it possible that a loyal customer cannot criticize some aspects of the product HE OWNS in a forum?! Then i wanted to discuss about this on KVR forum, and the moderator BANNED ME at once!!! He said i acted for "vendetta" (?!!!!). I am upset, wounded and confused. Look at what i wrote here on KVR. Is it enough to be BANNED?!! now, i cannot go on KVR anymore!!! (registered there since 2004). When I go to KVR, there is this message: "I told you not to bring your vendetta from the Propellerhead forums to KVR". ???! "vendetta"?!!! WTF?! Kind of a sect?! What's that?!

That is why i ask how it works here, because i'd like to talk NOT against "reason" (?!!) but about some aspects i don't like about LIVE and REASON connected via rewire, that to me is uncomfortable.

I repeat: reason OWNER since 2002, betatester for 3,4,5, record 1, record 1,5. Ableton live OWNER since 4 (always updated, plus some instruments, Operator etc.), not a THIEF! I am wounded, and worried because i am expecting to be BANNED from here, too... :(

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:08 pm
by LoopStationZebra
I'm not sure whether I should be impressed or horrified that you have only 7 posts since joining at roughly the time the forum was started.


Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:09 pm
by Angstrom
How it works here:

If there was a nightclub, and everynight there was somebody who came in and butted into every conversation with his criticism of the club, it's drinks prices, how it used to be better, how he is "owed" something. If that person was told "yeah we get it, we understand, but man, we were just talking about breasts over here, enough with the endless butting in, we get it!", and that person continued to rant about how those customers were "fanboys" for not joining his personal never-ending tirade.
If that person was asked multiple times to stop derailing topics ... That person would be banned from here.

It would not be a matter of "free speech" it would be a matter of a mad annoying person ruining every single topic and needing to be removed.
Free speech means you are free to say it somewhere, not everywhere. My bedroom is out of bounds for example.

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:19 pm
by LoopStationZebra
I love how Angstrom joined the club within DAYS of 9V, but look at the difference in post count.



Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:25 pm
by Angstrom
Ah... but every single post is a golden nugget of wisdom ;-)
(like this one )

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:12 pm
by [stm]

it's all about being nice to each other, really. Please feel free to utter all criticism you feel is appropriate, just take care not to insult anyone along the way. :)

Welcome to the forum!


Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:18 pm
by 9V
i am very confused, because i have never insulted anyone there, i just noticed many "fanboys" who wanted me to be banned, one of them made a public "poll" in which he asked "shall we ban him, my friends?", then another thread in which they suggested the best ways to insult me... I was upset, because the propellerhead staff never banned them! They could tell me everything, like "you are a troll", "you are a pest, go away", "you are an obsessive whiner", "you are dumbass", "go eat pasta and tomato" (i guess it is kind of a racist prejudice, because i am italian), "your are shit", "you bullshit", "go make bunga bunga like berlusconi", "go wash your ass", "you are an idiot". etc. They have been never banned for such harsch things :oops:

As I said, i am not a troll, as far as i know a "troll" is the one who flames every thread with nonsense or opens many many threads just to make things confusing, etc. But, well, i was in that forum since 2002 and opened only 5 threads in the last two months, i guess 12 in ten years... and all audio or reason reffered. And i wrote my posts only in 10 threads out of hundreds! But they told me "you are a troll" (?!), you are negative and insult everyone (?!!).

One day i was talking about music and what music means to me. I used the term "real musician", and one of the Propellerhead staff came in telling me I was offensive, because using "real musician" meant that i was insinuating the reason users are not musicians! 8O

At last they told me that PH is kind of a "happy" community with their own rules, and i was not accepted, because i did not respect the "rules" (?!) But I read their forum rules, and i have never done things like "posting porn, spamming, racist arguments, start political or religious threads" etc.! It is against my ethos, indeed... i am libertarian, left oriented, antifa. I replied: "well, i am here as a propellerhead costumer, not as a member of this so called community, never heard before. I own a PH product, i think i have the right to criticize it". They answered it is not important, the most important thing is i was annoying because of my talking about vst and rewire (??!). So they banned me! :roll:

What Angstrom says, using the "nightclub" allegory is right, but it is not my case. In my case it is like a big big house with hundreds of rooms, i am paying, i have password and license to enter the house and i can choose my bunch of (closed) rooms to discuss. But the owner of the house comes and says: "you are not allowed to be here, even if you occupy only 10 rooms out of 3000. The other members of the community don't want you here". To me it is something like "apartheid", not freedom. But maybe i am wrong, because of my english gaps... who knows. That is why i am so worried, and i guess i will be banned here, too! :oops:

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:26 pm
by aisling
maybe we need to start a lottery and ban somebody every week?

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:00 pm
by Rave
9V , I got your back fella. U r 8) in my book.

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:55 pm
by 9V
no, i am really upset and disgusted, they wrote me an email in which they told me i have been banned because in 10 years i was writing just a few posts, and in the last two weeks i wrote too much (????!!!!), without any other explanation apart "your posts can be considered trolling and insulting", then they finished the letter in a stupid way, things like "why don't you go outside walking under sunshine and smelling flowers". I am wounded and they treated me as if i were a kid, a teenager... forgetting I PAY their products, i am not their little "bad" brother or the "black sheep" pro vst to be banned. They have no respect, IMO.

By the way, i wanted to discuss about this treatment and this strange policy in the KVR forum, but the moderator banned me at once, and now i cannot enter the kvr site anymore, as if i was a troll, a pirate... He gave me a menacing message "i told you"! He talked about "vendetta" (?!!!!). What has KVR to do with propellerhead? Is it something like a joint venture? i thought it was an indipendent site. Why i have been banned? I really don't understand, because i did not say "reason sucks" or something harsh or rude, i just wanted to talk with other costumers about the bad behaviour of PH staff and reason community in the forum. That is why i expect to be banned here, too...

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:58 pm
by 9V
yes, one of the propellerhead guys writes in the kvr forum, but with no propellerhead staff avatar, so when he writes about reason it is all super etc. I know that because he told us in the PH forum, so nothing secret. But people on kvr do not know. So, i thought kvr was independent, for musicians, and that we could express complaints about the products we use... not a place for blind fans only... again: i did not say anything offensive, apart "are you fanboys?" when they insulted me in a very harsh way. I wrote something here, talking with another unsatisfied long time reason user: ... &start=180

the user called Trancit is a propellerhead employee, one of the ones who banned me in PH forum. After this, the KVR moderator banned me immediately, he menaced me "i told you" etc. but i don't think i was rude, apart my opinions about the reason fanboysm. Is that enough to be banned? Maybe i sound stupid, dumb... but i really do not understand how it works!

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:00 am
by Cryptic UK

Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:58 am
by LoopStationZebra

The Queen would frown upon this language, sir. Just sayin.


Re: BAN. How does it work here?

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:03 am
by KrisM
Meffy on KVR locked the thread this guy made lamenting his banning from the PH forums.


"Your dispute at the Props forums should be left at KVR's doorstep. This is no place to continue a vendetta.

Anyone familiar with the Propellerhead forums' moderation will know that they're among the most loosely modded out there. I've seen the posts in question (this is NOT about just the one quoted above) and IMO the ban was earned."

Bottom line, 9V is not telling the whole story, and that he's bringing here to the Ableton forums stinks. Just let it GO, man!