is music really just a young mans game?

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
senator adam
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by senator adam » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:10 pm

It really doesn't matter if you are good. It really matters if you are NOT good.

Bad older musician = "Dude, give it up and move on already"
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gjm
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by gjm » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:13 pm

bartend7 wrote:thanks for the reply's.......i had a bad morning. my situation (just to clarify) is that i'm a drummer who plays 3-6 gigs a week-usually jazz but i play in an r&b band, and do rock stuff occasionally. , i teach some little kids and sometimes do some drumline stuff at a high school. I've really been having alot of fun with making electronic music the past couple years, and am now looking for outlets to express some of that music. It just seems like the younger electronic musicians in town get alot of publicity (some of them are god-awful) and its about this image thing....but i'm ranting again........trying to stay away from the dark side.......
i guess i'm successful to some degree. i mean-i pretty much just play aside from some light bartending, but thats been slowing down as the music has been picking up. but i dont make that much money (i might even be considered poverty. but i'm happy) and just get a little sad when i hear of some 20 year old making 750 bucks djing (not even originals) and i'm getting alot less than that for a 4 hour gig in the heat.. but..here again comes the darkness....
Ok. I think I know exactly where you are coming from. I think I would have to agree that the older you look the more you have to do to get approval if you are trying to break into some sort of performance area thats new for you. I have some very young guitar students who can't play for shit but will make more money busking in an hour than I can. This is not about the quality of music but the emotion evoked in onlookers heads. People give money cause they are cute. I know this is an extreme case but it does highlight the issue of image.

I have found that once you get the stage where you are basically self supportive in music, you can't rest. I have found that I need to be constantly up skilling in many areas and I need a long term view of things, a business plan if you will. Pulling back in one area to concentrate on another takes HUGE effort and planning while maintaining all of your current 'gigs.' I suppose all I can say is that perhaps you need to give it more time while you keep chipping away at your goals and not loose heart. :)
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littlepig
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by littlepig » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:42 am

Off topic but this annoyed me so I am commneting:

gjm wrote:
a local high school has just made the iPad compulsory on their stationary list for an entire grade 9 as the beginning of the phase in for the whole school.
I find it sad that a school is forcing people to buy proprietry hardware. If they said 'a tablet computer' I think it would be OK but this insistance on an iPad is limiting puplis horizons. They should be learning that there is more than one device, operating system...

gjm
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by gjm » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:48 am

littlepig wrote:Off topic but this annoyed me so I am commneting:

gjm wrote:
a local high school has just made the iPad compulsory on their stationary list for an entire grade 9 as the beginning of the phase in for the whole school.
I find it sad that a school is forcing people to buy proprietry hardware. If they said 'a tablet computer' I think it would be OK but this insistance on an iPad is limiting puplis horizons. They should be learning that there is more than one device, operating system...
This did cause a bit of controversy and the school has since said that if there is a net book or laptop available then that is fine, but if possible, the preference is an iPad. They are the first secondary school in our country to make it compulsory at this level, and have a preference like this.
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littlepig
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by littlepig » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:00 am

What about the poeple who can't afford an ipad/laptop/netbook?

andydes
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by andydes » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:55 pm

Not a problem if they live in london, manchester, birmingham, croyden, etc, etc...

rote fahne
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by rote fahne » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:36 pm

Bukowski's first novel was published when he was 51. Okay, not a musician, but.

Then there is guys like Sonny Rollins still playing at the age of 80.

The only thing you can do as an artist is keep working, thats the way I see it.

Being succesfull with you art, that would be nice, but you have to survive anyway, whether through selling your art, or through other means.

I would say, make the music YOU want to make, and dont worry about getting succesfully with it financially.

Buh.

habeeb24
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by habeeb24 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:46 pm

Music is a part of life which makes man feel better when he is depressed and sad. It will get happiness to us when we hear it.

gjm
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by gjm » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:27 pm

littlepig wrote:What about the poeple who can't afford an ipad/laptop/netbook?
'Apparently' no one will be excluded for financial reasons. These things are compulsory anyway for certain subjects in grade 12 ie I.T. and Media studies as well as Music. I had to send my kid to school with a Macbook, Sibelius (full version) Adobe Suite Master Collection & Microsoft Office. The schools can hook you up with drip feed payment plans if needed. It caused an outcry of "I can't afford this..." but its here to stay and people just need to get used to this type of requirement for modern education... so they have been told.

I can see yet another wave of increasingly younger school kid DJ's using the latest $10 apps to feed to abyss with more meaningless musical dribble making it even harder for the old men to have a voice :|
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aisling
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by aisling » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:17 pm

bartend7 wrote:i'm feeling pretty dark today. does anybody feel that if your going to be successful in the music business, you need to be first picked up/ noticed when your young? Is promoting an older musician not a viable business model? Are people more willing to support something new and fresh by someone who is l9 as opposed to someone is 50? I think i missed my window. I'm 32 and i'm probably doomed.

anyone else feeling dark?

I am 41 and have been going at it (intense) since I was 16.....so many "almost's" in my live from major label rejection, to awesome opening slots in fantastic venues....but never the "big break". I had a massive low point in my life around 34 when I cam to a similar realization. Even after putting music production down for about 2 years entirely to raise kids....one day the muse found me and back in it I am.....

We all have our own path, some of us may envy or want what others seemingly have, I know I did, wanting stardom, etc...but as I look back, it is clear that the "universe" has a different master plan for me beyond musical fame, but continues to provide endless creativity, artistic inspiration, passion, and fulfillment from music as a "hobby".

Raga Ram from shpongle was around 50+ when their first album came out......there is always hope.
http://soundcloud.com/aislingbeing


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doghouse
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by doghouse » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:22 pm

bartend7 wrote:get a little sad when i hear of some 20 year old making 750 bucks djing (not even originals) and i'm getting alot less than that for a 4 hour gig in the heat
I'm 56 and have never been able to make enough $$ to do music full time. I still play 2-4 gigs a week on bass. I long ago missed my shot at any kind of fame and fortune, but I've had a lot of fun making music over the years. Recorded albums, played big concerts and festivals, gigged with some of my heroes, done a few short tours, been on radio, TV and even in a movie plus met a lot of great players many of whom I've worked with for decades. I have a few regrets but just keep looking to the future and more gigs!

Meanwhile that 20 year old DJ will most likely be out of a job in a few years 8)

bartend7
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by bartend7 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:25 pm

thanks for commenting on my lame thread. feeling a little better today. as i re-read my original post today i felt a little foolish. Its kinda bitchy and immature. i just need to stay the course. i love music and just need to do it. maybe i just suck, but whatever....

also not really looking for fame, or to become a star, just to make a living . some of the comments did make me feel better, but i also got paid for 3 gigs last night (they were ducking me man!!!) so i feel a little less angry today. later... time to shed :D

Forge.
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by Forge. » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:19 am

bartend7 wrote:thanks for the reply's.......i had a bad morning. my situation (just to clarify) is that i'm a drummer who plays 3-6 gigs a week-usually jazz but i play in an r&b band, and do rock stuff occasionally. , i teach some little kids and sometimes do some drumline stuff at a high school. I've really been having alot of fun with making electronic music the past couple years, and am now looking for outlets to express some of that music.........
dude - you ARE successful. You're working doing your music.

When you choose to do what you love you have to make sacrifices to a degree - meaning maybe you need to lower your outgoings if the income doesn't seem to be enough, or maybe you have to accept that you rent instead of buy if you have trouble getting a mortgage etc... but even there if you are really business like about it you could eventually make that happen too.

The big fantasy world has even changed - no-one expects to earn their living from only recording any more, this is why the majors now do 360 deals that cover touring and merch as well. But it's only people like Lady gaga who get that kind of thing.. although there is that whole 'coldplay' kind of sound that seems to do well

Earning a living from music is doing everything you just said- playing gigs, teaching etc.... and that can free you up for writing music to release in the spare time you get during the day, because releases won;t earn you money.

but honestly, I do know what you mean - I often get a bit depressed watching artists on tv because it isn't me, but that is the reality for most of us... like others said, you need to redefine your idea of success.

Guff Tong
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Re: is music really just a young mans game?

Post by Guff Tong » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:44 am

I'd never have afforded this hobby when I was younger in the 80's (especially when a decent home studio would have cost in the region 25k!)

Back then I used to make music either on my own or in bands - with guitars, drums, didge, keyboards or whatever I could lay my hands on; layering tapes up on home hifi's, using naff keyboards to make beat tracks and mangling the sounds with guitar fx.... Had also used some classic kit owned by record selling pro-musician friends like M1's, 303's etc.. all triggered by atari/cubase.

...back then though, all I spent cash on was yee-haa and nonsense - I left the music to the relatively 'sober' studio boffins & selecters.

Now... I'd never give up making music as I make tunes for my own pleasure. I have many years to catch up on random ideas that I had walking home from the pub in various states of inebriation.

To take it to a higher level though would mean retiring, taking a sound engineer course, getting divorced and selling the house (in any order you like).... so hobby it is for me and just a 'game'

w.


'The game',.... you just lost it (again) btw.

:x

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