the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
trevox
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by trevox » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:48 am

9V wrote:Well, yes. But this is OT. My answer (complexity) was because the user Trevox linked autechre music as an example of "complicated music made without MIDI" (or something like that... i did not understand really what he meant... he talked about max for live: but max for live, as far as i know, sends messages, like MIDI/OSC, not audio signals). He said it is "complicated", i don't think it is. Frank Zappa music is very complex. Autechre are nice, but quite simple.
You know little or nothing about electronic music composition in that case. I guess we have all gathered that already though. I was not talking about Max for Live, I was talking about Max/MSP. So now you have added OSC into the mix? This is an example of what I am trying to get through to you. Midi is NOT the be all and end all. OSC is great too as it allows communication to non-midi devices, but still not sample accurate. But then again you said it in the post - you simply do not understand what I was trying to tell you - nor did you ask pertinent questions to even try to understand. That's all - no more. Please do not respond to this or quote me again. I have had enough.

You still have not answered my questions either. Given the amount of "cherry picked" replies you make, I think that says it all. You really don't know what you are talking about but refuse to give in.

stringtapper
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by stringtapper » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:08 am

9V wrote:but max for live, as far as i know, sends messages, like MIDI/OSC, not audio signals).
And this sort of encapsulated everything about you, 1V. You've been told repeatedly by two Max users (me and trevox) that Max indeed works with audio signals, yet you continue rambling as if you never read any of those answers.

So just to stay with your rigid definition of "in a sequencer," Max for Live now let's us create music in a sequencer (Live) that is not generated by MIDI but by audio signals alone. It's a fact.

You can now die in peace knowing that you finally have your answer (sooner than later please?).
Unsound Designer

drewbixcube
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by drewbixcube » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:20 am

MIDI is the lazy man's tool. I do not consider anything written with MIDI to be music because I only use sine waves:

Image
where:
A, the amplitude, is the peak deviation of the function from its center position.
?, the angular frequency, specifies how many oscillations occur in a unit time interval, in radians per second
?, the phase, specifies where in its cycle the oscillation begins at t = 0.

Every once in a while I might cheat and start off with a sawtooth though:

Image

Forge.
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by Forge. » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:24 am

I find it apt that this thread just sent me a reply notification at 420pm

I draw your attention to Beatsme's prior example: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=168268

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:52 pm

drewbixcube wrote:MIDI is the lazy man's tool. I do not consider anything written with MIDI to be music because I only use sine waves:

Image
where:
A, the amplitude, is the peak deviation of the function from its center position.
?, the angular frequency, specifies how many oscillations occur in a unit time interval, in radians per second
?, the phase, specifies where in its cycle the oscillation begins at t = 0.

Every once in a while I might cheat and start off with a sawtooth though:

Image

music with midi
Image

music with "audio" (?!!)
Image

mbird21
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by mbird21 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:01 pm

I dont think ive ever read anyone as obsessed with this topic, if it wasint so stupid i would actually say its bordering OCD, surely you must be sick of debating the same old shit over and over?.
Alex!

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:03 pm

stringtapper wrote:
9V wrote:but max for live, as far as i know, sends messages, like MIDI/OSC, not audio signals).
And this sort of encapsulated everything about you, 1V. You've been told repeatedly by two Max users (me and trevox) that Max indeed works with audio signals, yet you continue rambling as if you never read any of those answers.

So just to stay with your rigid definition of "in a sequencer," Max for Live now let's us create music in a sequencer (Live) that is not generated by MIDI but by audio signals alone. It's a fact.

You can now die in peace knowing that you finally have your answer (sooner than later please?).
that is not an answer, because in a sequencer there are STILL only two kinds of tracks: MIDI (music) and AUDIO (sound). Which is the name of this new way of putting music in a sequencer without notes?! in a studio, for instance, while mastering: "ok, bounce the tracks" (midi or audio tracks). How do you spell it? "bounce the max"? How?... :roll:

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:17 pm

MIDI expresses musical events (notes played, vibrato, dynamics, etc.) as a common language consisting of standardized digital data. This data can be understood by MIDI compatible computers and computer-based musical instruments.

For a musician this is MORE THAN ENOUGH... 8)

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:45 pm

my point is at page 1 (very first post): for me only MIDI tracks in a sequencer are "music". The rest is sound. :roll:

Forge.
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by Forge. » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:00 pm

9V wrote:my point is at page 1 (very first post): for me only MIDI tracks in a sequencer are "music". The rest is sound. :roll:
But sorry, it's just a stupid, pointless point that only displays your own ignorance. And this thread has somehow gone for over 40 pages because people are for some reason bothering to argue with you.

What amazing conclusion are you hoping to reach with this earth shattering realisation?

MacGuffin
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by MacGuffin » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:05 pm

Forge. wrote:What amazing conclusion are you hoping to reach with this earth shattering realisation?

exactly, MIDI is just a protocol for information between computers, audio could be music. The question is pointless, either you are trolling or completely insane.

Forge.
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by Forge. » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:13 pm

MacGuffin wrote:
Forge. wrote:What amazing conclusion are you hoping to reach with this earth shattering realisation?

exactly, MIDI is just a protocol for information between computers, audio could be music. The question is pointless, either you are trolling or completely insane.
audio in the sense he is talking about is ultimately a bunch of 0s and 1s, just like MIDI

9v try this:

1. create a plain text document with textedit or notepad
2. type into said document "9v is a plonker" then copy/paste it loads of times so there is a reasonable amount of text in the file
3. rename the file to "9v is a plonker.wav"
4. load said file into an audio editor or Ableton's Simpler and loop it
5. if it's in Simpler play a few notes on the keyboard
6. hang your head in shame at the sheer idiocy you have persisted in

mbird21
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by mbird21 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:18 pm

Image

Therapy Needed!
Alex!

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:22 pm

my point is much much simpler, indeed. When I compose music and have to put this music in a sequencer, i always try to build songs only with MIDI tracks, and the reason is clear: because MIDI can be edited like a music sheet. Audio tracks contain only sound (waveforms) that are not editable with musical parameters, only with sound engineering tools. My conclusion is that, in a sequencer, only MIDI tracks can be considered "music".

MacGuffin
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by MacGuffin » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:24 pm

In live audio is easily modified in time and pitch, the whole DAW is like a giant sampler.

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