the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
stringtapper
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by stringtapper » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:58 pm

9V wrote:not in my country
Please stop saying this. There is nothing inherently "Italian" about your opinion. Nor is there anything about it that is inherently "German" or "French" or "American" or "Armenian" or "Antarctican" or…
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9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:07 pm

stringtapper wrote:
9V wrote:not in my country
Please stop saying this. There is nothing inherently "Italian" about your opinion. Nor is there anything about it that is inherently "German" or "French" or "American" or "Armenian" or "Antarctican" or…
:roll: :arrow: http://youtu.be/Dzo-wsrCnRs

italian taxi driver: are you from new york?
AMERICAN TOURIST: no, no new york, i'm from dallas. You know dallas?
italian taxi driver: ah, dallas... "daje" (trad: "worst than ever")
AMERICAN TOURIST: you said "dallas daje", what you mean "dallas daje"?!
italian taxi driver: no, nothing, it's something mine... related to my family...
AMERICAN TOURIST: No! You said that!
italian taxi driver: (trying to digress) ok, after San Peter what would you like to do? Restaurant? Hotel?
AMERICAN TOURIST: I want to know: why "dallas daje"?
italian taxi driver: no, nothing... it's only because every day, every night... my family on tv... watching dallas
AMERICAN TOURIST: So you don't like dallas?!
italian taxi driver: no, it is not that i don't like it... it's that "mi rompe" (trad: it breaks my balls)
AMERICAN TOURIST: I don't understand... what you mean "mi rompe"?
italian taxi driver: I mean... why here in italy we have to watch dallas? Do we italians oblige you in USA to watch something like "Porto Gruaro", "Gallarate"?... Why do you have to break our "coglioni" (bollocks) with this crap?!
AMERICAN TOURIST: You said "coglione", i know what it means! It means "bollocks"! You said me "bollock"!
italian taxi driver: ah, you understand "coglione" then...
AMERICAN TOURIST WIFE: But you said "coglione"!
italian taxi driver: Yes i said that... but it's because your husband is a little bit wrangler...
AMERICAN TOURIST: And you are a bastard! Listen to me! You're a bastard!
italian taxi driver: Now listen to me, american... You americans always say "bastard". You know why? Because you have a poor language. Now I explain what we italians could say to you (1 minute CENSORED for american users)

Image

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:01 pm

So what do you get if you record a conversation? Is it still "music"? No, of course. What if you record the sounds of traffic, a storm, nature, birds, etc.? Can you call it "music" only because it is "sound" (codified in waveforms in an audio track)? It isn't of course. At the same time, you call recorded music "music" only because your brain codifies it as "music". But this is just a human illusion, like watching something in a mirror. The real "code" in this case is not music (notation), but sound/noise (waveforms). That is why, as a code (read, for instance, by a machine), audio material (both recorded "music" performances and sounds/noises) is just sound (waveforms), while MIDI is music. Of course for the listener this difference is not important. It is important for the musician.

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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by drewbixcube » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:25 pm

You're missing the point entirely. Music can be written, yes, but the end result is what truly matters. Say, for example, you are creating a song that you want to have the sounds of traffic, a storm, nature, birds, etc. How will you do this with MIDI? Subjectively speaking, the final piece may or may not be considered music, depending on the listener, but you will most definitely be using audio to convey your emotions to the audience.

Music is art, first and foremost. A photograph of a photograph viewed through a mirror will still convey the same message as the original. Hell, even the original is just a print of the negative. Do you really want to go that far? Is life not but a dream? Do we really exist?

You say you are an electronic musician, however MIDI has more to do with binary code than it does electronics. You might as well call yourself a MIDI musician if that is the only medium you'll consider art.
9V wrote:Of course for the listener this difference is not important. It is important for the musician.
Wrong again. For you the difference is important. True musicians, true artists, care more deeply about the fruits of their labor than they do about how they get it done. In fact, most well known artists become well known for disregarding such rigid definitions of their discipline. In other words, they think outside of the box.

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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:38 pm

(1) if you want those sounds in your song you can call those sounds "music" only if you play them in real time (human action) as elements of the score (nothing new, even classical music plays sometimes with elements not included in the instruments world: guns, metal pans, objects etc.).

(2) art must have rules, otherwise it is not art. Revolutions in art consist in breaking some rules, not in avoiding to follow them.

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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by drewbixcube » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:02 pm

(1) Good luck playing a thunderstorm real time.

(2) Art needs no rules to create it. Someone had to come up with the rules to help teach/explain the methods used, but you can be certain that the rules did not come before the art.

stringtapper
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by stringtapper » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:20 pm

drewbixcube wrote:the rules did not come before the art.
This is the truth. Theory follows practice. And I'm saying this as a music theorist. My job is to study music and describe the methods and procedures that were involved in making it. Yes, theory gives us the tools to create music in ways that it has happened before, but innovation has always and will probably always precede the theories that describe it.
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9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:23 pm

the rules always come before the art here in italy. Art is something expressed with rules. If you don't know the rules you cannot be an artist and everything you create without this knowledge isn't art. Not to mention innovation and new artistic currents.

supamonsta
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by supamonsta » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:13 pm

9V wrote:Art is something expressed with rules. If you don't know the rules you cannot be an artist and everything you create without this knowledge isn't art.
Hi 9V, welcome to our beloved international forum.

I'd suggest you think before you write, like the artist who mentalizes his new musical piece before writing the score... and then you can also read your words again before validating your post.

This would avoid you to write such nonsense and help you get some more credibility.

Just to help.

And please stop saying the same thing over and over as soon as someone gets in the thread, you made your point extremely clear and precise, thanks for that, there were some interesting questions, but it's clear you don't like to argue, you seem here to impose your views and discredit any opposite opinion, or, even, any intelligent answers... (I learnt lots of interesting musical science in answers you got from people you discredited or blindly avoided...


anyway, let's feed the troll because it is always fun, eh?

cheers

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:21 pm

supamonsta wrote:
9V wrote:Art is something expressed with rules. If you don't know the rules you cannot be an artist and everything you create without this knowledge isn't art.
Hi 9V, welcome to our beloved international forum. I'd suggest you think before you write, like the artist who mentalizes his new musical piece before writing the score... and then you can also read your words again before validating your post. This would avoid you to write such nonsense and help you get some more credibility. Just to help.
Image

Just to help... :roll:

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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by supamonsta » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:28 pm

Image

THIS IS NOT ART. THOSE GUYS DIDN'T KNOW THE FUCKING RULES.

:|

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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by docprosper » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:39 pm

supamonsta wrote:Image

THIS IS NOT ART. THOSE GUYS DIDN'T KNOW THE FUCKING RULES.

:|
Wow, you totally beat me to it; I was just thinking about cave art as the perfect way to discredit 9V's latest drivel myself. Basically, if you don't agree with him, you are a listener, not a musician. Yawn.
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:40 pm

Image

:roll:

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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by supamonsta » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:47 pm

ok you win,

stay as you are, solid as the rock, that's fine.

cheers

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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:10 am

supamonsta wrote:ok you win, stay as you are, solid as the rock, that's fine. cheers
Image

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