the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

[H20nly]

Wrong again. Been to the US much?

judging by his reply... nope, not ever. if anything he's been to New York or some other over sized over populated place that represents 3% of what the U.S. is actually like.

[9V]

Libertarians believe in free markets, private property, and capitalism. Anarchists who believe in these things usually call themselves libertarians.

no, in italy it is something different. I guess in USA "libertarian" stands for "liberalism" (political thought) or those extreme capitaistic policy called "anarcho-capitalism"? (that, actually, has nothing to do with real anarchism). Here "libertarian" stands for Sacco e Vanzetti, Malatesta, Chomsky, Berneri, anarcho-syndacalism, socialist anarchism and anarchist communism (the ones you call "the reds", i guess?).

i am not from the USA.

i don't care where in the world you are from, a libertarian is not an anarchist.

i don't call communists "the reds".

i don't think that pianist was that attractive.

I don't know what you are talking about, sorry. Maybe in your country it is something different from "anarchism". In Italy anarchism is a synonym of liberatianism ("left-libertarianism"). "right libertarianism" does not exist here, we just call that "capitalism" or "ultraconservatives".

[macmurphy]

But, as I said before, it is my "dogma", not a discussion

well that just about sums it all up really.

i don't think i've ever come across such a soulless, narrow minded automaton in my life.

[MacGuffin]

that about sums it up, thanks Scu

[crofter]

that about sums it up, thanks Scu

Oh, and don't forget Italy!

And the piano player's tits.

[H20nly]

yes, the tits are key in all this.

[9V]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYcjKqpod7M&NR=1

[trevox]

OK, you record a midi sequence playing a synth so it is audio and you have this as a clip in Live. You also have the same MIDI sequence as a MIDI clip in Live. On stage, you have 2 scenarios... You hit play which will loop the audio file or you hit play which plays the Midi file. The audience hears the same thing. You do nothing other than hit play. How is one of these scenarios cheating when the other is not?

Infact I have never said "this is better, this is worse" etc. I just said FOR ME only MIDI TRACKS in a sequencer can be considered MUSIC. Now, since ONLY electronic music is played with sequencers, my dogma is: "ok, since sometimes I cannot play those events IN REAL TIME, although I am playing ON STAGE, then, at least, I avoid using AUDIO MATERIAL". This "dogma" is for musicians (electronic musicians, actually), not for the audience. The reason is clear, for me: audio material is static, dead, like a photograph. Not to mention if it is something played by others and used in a sequencer (prefab samples etc.). MIDI events are ALIVE, and they are the REAL expression of YOUR MUSIC, even if not played with your hands, but in a sequencer. I potentially could change these (musical) events right now, so "potentially" it is still music. Audio tracks are only sound. For the listener there is no difference at all, of course! It is just an ethical "dogma" for electronic musicians. But, as I said before, it is my "dogma", not a discussion because I'm better than you (are).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW9K0jazrbU

You could potentially change, but from what I gather, you don't. In a sequencer, they are pre-set recordings of midi events.

[9V]

You could potentially change, but from what I gather, you don't. In a sequencer, they are pre-set recordings of midi events.

[trevox]

You could potentially change, but from what I gather, you don't. In a sequencer, they are pre-set recordings of midi events.

What? No idea what that face is meant to mean. Do you do some crazy manipulation of your pre-recorded midi sequences live?

[9V]

no, I am not a dj. But, let's say the singer has a different range, so you have to change tonality on stage: with midi you can (music), with audio you can't (sound). Or... let's say you want to play your song in a slower time. With midi you can (music), with audio you can't (sound). Etc. That is why I use only midi tracks in a sequencer: because MIDI is editable with musical parameters (tonality, speed, etc.). Audio is only "dead" sound, like a photograph...

[H20nly]

Or... let's say you want to play your song in a slower time. With midi you can (music), with audio you can't (sound).

there's this one DAW that does this stretchy thing with audio, i can't remember the name of it right now... hmmm

i also used a couple of others before that had this thing called tempus or tempestuous or tempo.. something like that. not sure which DAWs they were it's been a while but maybe you could google it.

hope this helps.

[9V]

no, it does not help, because audio stretching is not music, but sound.

[trevox]

no, it does not help, because audio stretching is not music, but sound.

Well I think you cheat when you play live. You should get an orchestra of people to play keyboards. And I will pre-empt your response saying that this is not possible, so I will follow that with this....there are things you can do to musically effect the timbre using audio in order to express your music that you cannot do with midi, so it would also be acceptable to "cheat" by using audio with that logic.

Really 9V, you are becoming an embarrassment to the batteries in my guitar pedals.

[9V]

i am not cheating if I use MIDI tracks, because it is electronic music and ONLY in electronic music a sequencer is used as a musical instrument. That is why only MIDI is music (in a sequencer). If you play audio tracks on stage it is like cheating the audience, because audio is sound. What (maybe) you don't understand is that i am not talking of "recording my music in a DAW". I am talking of the sequencer, used as an instrument ON STAGE.