the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:23 pm

stringtapper wrote:
9V wrote:Well, no-one agreed with galileo when he said "it's the earth moving, not the sun", no-one agreed with darwin when he said "i am sorry, but those bible's tales are BS" etc. Now these are obvious things for everyone (apart some funny american religious fanatics). Usually the crowd is conservative, so i am not that surprised "the majority" is "against my theories" here (i write "here" because out there every musician knows the difference between a code and a phenomenon, that is to say the difference between music and sound...).
But wait, in this case "the crowd" are the progressives and YOU are the conservative. :lol: :lol: :lol:
"progressive" does not mean following two users who don't understand the difference between the code and the mean. This is conservative. Otherwise the german crowd following Hitler's "weird ideology" were "progressive"?!... 8O

trevox
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by trevox » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:27 pm

9V wrote:it is just because for the majority this difference is obvious. Why should they write "9V is right"? As you can notice, i can defend the "cause" alone. Is it you who needs "mates", pherpahs... no me :roll:
Ha! You are such a martyr aren't you. Poor old 9V...

You can defend the "cause" alone? Firstly, what is the cause? Secondly, you are doing an awful job at defending this "cause" as you come across as being totally incompetent and arrogant. Thirdly, I am quite a sociable person and tend to get on with everyone.

I actually gave you a chance to "discuss" this topic a while back, but your responses were that of an arrogant know-it-all, not willing to listen to anything others have to say. and since then, you have doen nothing to endear yourself to anyone. I will sum up you in 70 pages of posts...

"I am 9V and I am posting this to discuss MIDI vs AUDIO. Actually, audio is not music, end of discussion. I am not willing to change my views no matter what anyone has to say. The fact is, I know everything about music and MIDI and I do not care that people who study/teach music or musicians that have spent 20+ years writing electronic music have any differing views. I am arrogant enough to believe I am right".

The unfortunate thing is that this as it is a really interesting topic. I just wish you were not the person responding to everyone's views as it has turned into a circus. You see, people can agree to disagree at times, but further the discussion. You refuse to even contemplate anything exists unless you are already aware of it. As I said, you are a dinosaur when it comes to music - living 400 years ago...

trevox
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by trevox » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:29 pm

9V wrote:yes, they are, but the difference between a musician and the beatles is that the musician can read and play every beatles song just reading it or listening to the theme, while mccartney & C. could play only songs, not music. But i understand "pop songs" writers and complex music (chopin, zappa, rachmaninov etc.) performers can be considered "musicians" in a common sense. For me the musician is the one who can read, write, compose, edit, teach and perform music.
Who wrote the music? This is hilarious!! Where is the music?

trevox
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by trevox » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:37 pm

9V wrote:
stringtapper wrote:
9V wrote:Well, no-one agreed with galileo when he said "it's the earth moving, not the sun", no-one agreed with darwin when he said "i am sorry, but those bible's tales are BS" etc. Now these are obvious things for everyone (apart some funny american religious fanatics). Usually the crowd is conservative, so i am not that surprised "the majority" is "against my theories" here (i write "here" because out there every musician knows the difference between a code and a phenomenon, that is to say the difference between music and sound...).
But wait, in this case "the crowd" are the progressives and YOU are the conservative. :lol: :lol: :lol:
"progressive" does not mean following two users who don't understand the difference between the code and the mean. This is conservative. Otherwise the german crowd following Hitler's "weird ideology" were "progressive"?!... 8O
I am certainly not asking anyone to "follow" me!! Including you. I am certainly not giving anyone a lesson in what the rules are as I don't believe there should be any. My view is and has been all along is that there are NO rules. You reach the end goal of a musical recording by whatever means you wish to use. Is that the view of a conservative man?

Your definition of what music is (which is archaic and very conservative) does not cater for the manner in which music has progressed since the "rules" you abide so vehemently by were created. Is that the view of a progressive man? I think not.

Music is evolving, but you stay in the dark ages. Well good luck with that - I wish you well.

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:39 pm

trevox wrote:
9V wrote:yes, they are, but the difference between a musician and the beatles is that the musician can read and play every beatles song just reading it or listening to the theme, while mccartney & C. could play only songs, not music. But i understand "pop songs" writers and complex music (chopin, zappa, rachmaninov etc.) performers can be considered "musicians" in a common sense. For me the musician is the one who can read, write, compose, edit, teach and perform music.
Who wrote the music? This is hilarious!! Where is the music?
it is not hilarious at all: music is a code, even an illiterate or a three years old child can compose simple tunes, and they are music of course. It is like language: the fact you speak english does not mean you are shakespeare... the fact every human can compose music does not mean everyone is chopin. There are levels of comprehension, but the code is the same. Where is the music? I just realize you did not even read my answers: it is obviously in the CODE (that every human can understand, being music a human language).

stringtapper
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by stringtapper » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:42 pm

9V wrote:
stringtapper wrote:
9V wrote:Well, no-one agreed with galileo when he said "it's the earth moving, not the sun", no-one agreed with darwin when he said "i am sorry, but those bible's tales are BS" etc. Now these are obvious things for everyone (apart some funny american religious fanatics). Usually the crowd is conservative, so i am not that surprised "the majority" is "against my theories" here (i write "here" because out there every musician knows the difference between a code and a phenomenon, that is to say the difference between music and sound...).
But wait, in this case "the crowd" are the progressives and YOU are the conservative. :lol: :lol: :lol:
"progressive" does not mean following two users who don't understand the difference between the code and the mean. This is conservative. Otherwise the german crowd following Hitler's "weird ideology" were "progressive"?!... 8O
Aaand we have reached Godwin's Law.

Thanks for playing 9V, but as you can see, your predictable move to compare your dissenters with Nazis has revealed that you don't have what it takes to argue reasonably and one would have every reason to rightly label you a "troll."
Unsound Designer

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:46 pm

so, following your weird logic, i wrote "you are nazis"... now i understand the rest :mrgreen:

trevox
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by trevox » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:51 pm

9V wrote:
trevox wrote:
9V wrote:yes, they are, but the difference between a musician and the beatles is that the musician can read and play every beatles song just reading it or listening to the theme, while mccartney & C. could play only songs, not music. But i understand "pop songs" writers and complex music (chopin, zappa, rachmaninov etc.) performers can be considered "musicians" in a common sense. For me the musician is the one who can read, write, compose, edit, teach and perform music.
Who wrote the music? This is hilarious!! Where is the music?
it is not hilarious at all: music is a code, even an illiterate or a three years old child can compose simple tunes, and they are music of course. It is like language: the fact you speak english does not mean you are shakespeare... the fact every human can compose music does not mean everyone is chopin. There are levels of comprehension, but the code is the same. Where is the music? I just realize you did not even read my answers: it is obviously in the CODE (that every human can understand, being music a human language).
But where is the code written? Surely not in the audio recording?

Oh, and I will decide what I find funny. Or do you have a "code" for that too that you can share?

macmurphy
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by macmurphy » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:30 pm

this thread is killing music.

trevox
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by trevox » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:41 pm

macmurphy wrote:this thread is killing music.
Yeah, it's probably best to stop fanning the flames.

aisling
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by aisling » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:46 pm

^ at least get passed this page so the thread is not stuck in a "forum vs 9v" 69.......
http://soundcloud.com/aislingbeing


Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.

mbird21
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by mbird21 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:00 pm

Excuse me ? im not a musician? who the fuck are you to tell me what i am or not? going by what you can see?, if thats anything to go by it counts for fuck all UK.

Im a semi professional musician YES, i dont make a living to not go to uni on it NO, buit then so does most people now in music!

You sitting there on a inflated ego preaching down to me what fuck music is!, i know what music is in its simplest form the kind everyone gets told, vibrations, which ear makes as sound, irregular vibrations are noise, regular uniformed vibrations are sound!, dother then this in music theory why would i want to be as stupid and arrogant as you!.

You sit there time and say my people!, like you speak for all of Italy lol if Italy was full of likes of you it would be one large asylum for the OCD.

Come on then mr mouth, lets hear your ground breaking tunes because after all your only musician on here, your a professional musician too, you must be making alot of money from your famous releases to be sitting all day and night on here fighting over your stupid same old rant, that you can afford to never make music, or hold on maybe you can do both at same time, you seem that great in comparison to me, honestly first i thought you were just funny, now i think your a complete and utter fucking moron and if the ableton forum boss wnats to kick me off for saying it so be it :x
Alex!

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:02 pm

trevox wrote: But where is the code written? Surely not in the audio recording? Oh, and I will decide what I find funny. Or do you have a "code" for that too that you can share?
The code CAN BE written, but it is not necessary. Infact you can use MEMORY, thought, gestures, midi etc. For sure the code is IN OUR BRAIN, both as musicians and listeners. NOT in the "audio", which is just a phisical mean. I already made an example for you, talking about human language: language as a code is different from the phonetic organs (tongue, chords, mouth etc.). Your mistake is to believe that language (code) and the mean (phonetic organs) are the same thing. They aren't. When you sing a tune, you just use your voice (sound) with phonetic organs (audio), to express somethin "coded" in your mind. Understand the difference: the tune is before the action, not together.

So, what you find "funny" and hilarious (the fact music can be composed even by naive composers, like the beatles, a child, an illiterate etc.) is just the proof music is a human faculty, not a phisical phenomenon. And, as every human faculty, can remain "basic" (see the beatles, supamonsta, a child etc.) or become an art (see: chopin, zappa etc.). That is why music as an art must be learnt, but as a basic faculty can be played even without knowing the rules. The same for paintings, poetry, literature etc. The fact i can draw a tree does not make me Leonardo... The fact you can speak english does not make you Shakespeare. The fact supamonsta can put together simple tunes does not make him Chopin... and so on. The key concept is "levels of comprehension".

H20nly
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by H20nly » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:40 pm

it seems like the key concept keeps changing. at first i thought it was "MIDI vs. Audio (what is music).

@ mird21 - don't let him get to you. the fact that he is saying/demanding that only 5 people don't agree with him shows the level of obtuse he is capable of. just take a look at the first 4 or 5 pages of the thread. then look at some in the middle and now the end. you can see how may people have chimed in, dropped out altogether and/or dropped back in and nothing has changed other than history and facts... which haven't changed to the rest of us, just during 9V's posts.
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

9V
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Re: the topic of topics: MIDI vs AUDIO ("what is music"?)

Post by 9V » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:54 pm

the only interested people about the topic in this thread are just five, actually. The rest is "background noise" :roll:

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