Hating Lion and going backwards?

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
masterblasterofdisaster
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Sat May 05, 2012 3:40 am

Linear Phase wrote: You can more easily, on a Windows machine, rearrange and customize how your computer acts. Its true, Windows is a shell, on a shell, on a shell, at the end of the day, its MS DOS..

c://I never got the far with Macintush. Its kinda like, "once you buy it, thats it." The thing will run, exactly how crApple wants it to run, and the end user has no say.
OS X is built on top of FreeBSD, which is a UNIX derivative - where UNIX is essentially the definition of configurability, as far as low level OS stuff goes. Though, I think it's probably likely your definition of configurability and mine might be somewhat different.

I used a Windows machine in digital effects production for four years, so I have some familiarity with it, though admittedly nothing recent... This was around 2001-2004 using XP, which I found clunky and was glad to be rid of. Yeah, I've still got a bad attitude about it. Perhaps I'm missing out on something good, but mannn, I dunno...


edit: PS - my basis of comparison at the time would be SGI's Irix operating system. I didn't come from Macs, but rather Amiga and SGI machines, so I've got some different expectations than most, perhaps.

icedsushi
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by icedsushi » Sat May 05, 2012 4:20 am

I like the "iOS" type features they've integrated into Lion. The main thing is the new set of gestures that you can do with the trackpad. But if you don't like them, it's easy to turn them off in system prefs. I think the swiping gestures really speed things up when using internet browser & multiple apps & it's eliminated unnecessary clicks & dependency on scroll bars. I remember a few versions back of OSX when you couldn't do a horizontal swipe with the trackpad. Since you're able to do that now, it's even helped make using Ableton easier navigating through racks, etc without having to click & drag the scroll bars. I don't know why anyone would desire to be limited not to do those things.

What are exactly the new features that are getting in everyone's way or slowing you down that can't be customized to your preference?

I can see the point about apps only being available through the app store and that not being good for choice of the end user. But that hasn't happened yet, so that theory is slippery slope reasoning.

ttilberg
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by ttilberg » Sat May 05, 2012 4:56 am

icedsushi wrote:
I can see the point about apps only being available through the app store and that not being good for choice of the end user. But that hasn't happened yet, so that theory is slippery slope reasoning.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/16/os- ... y-default/


Marketed as protection (and yes, that is potentially true) but you can't pay me to believe that Apple didn't want to move to a model where they collect a percentage of All software sales for use on their hardware. Look how restrictive they are on iOS.
Tim Tilberg - Duluth, MN | SoundCloud - Arsenal
2011 13" MBP w/8GB ram | Live 9 Suite, Reason 6.5, FXPansion DCAM/Etch/Maul, Izotope Ozone 5

Forge.
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by Forge. » Sat May 05, 2012 5:10 am

icedsushi wrote:..
What are exactly the new features that are getting in everyone's way or slowing you down that can't be customized to your preference?
.
for me the things that bugged me the most were changes to finder and the idea that they want you to get away from using it. I've just been working that way for far to long to want to change my habits. I know you can change certain things, and people pointed me to 3rd party tools to make the finder look more like it used to etc, but not fully understanding how those tools worked and not really wanting to put any time into it I wasn't that keen to hack into it that way.

I also found some things were not working as well - like not as 'snappy' - safari especially. I guess things like that might be streamlined in ML just like SL did for Leopard

but ultimately I made the change more because the driver problems made recording impossible in some cases, so that was really the clincher otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered.
Last edited by Forge. on Sat May 05, 2012 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Linear Phase
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by Linear Phase » Sat May 05, 2012 5:12 am

masterblasterofdisaster wrote:OS X is built on top of FreeBSD, which is a UNIX derivative - where UNIX is essentially the definition of configurability, as far as low level OS stuff goes. Though, I think it's probably likely your definition of configurability and mine might be somewhat different.
See now.. You are talking about, "low level OS," and I'm talking about, "average computer musician." News flash.. A lot of the music producers may be more aware of how computers work than average people, but that does not mean a music producer is the next hot shot, coding at Ableton or Native Instruments.

I owned a Macbook Pro for like 2 years, 3 years.. I liked it. Nice OS.. Great for them. but frankly I never saw the registry. I never got beyond the curtain..

In Windows I feel like I have a lot more control, and "tweakability." And that is probably true for the AVERAGE USER. Not for the Computer Professional, or for people who know a lot, lot, lot, about how the OS works. or OS X works.. etc, etc.

I should have been more clear
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Linear Phase
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by Linear Phase » Sat May 05, 2012 5:15 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Linear Phase wrote: I see that crApple, and Microslut want one software to run across the board on all the devices.. "windows 8, IOS" whatever. The only difference is with this, is on Windows, you can tweak your settings.. assuming you know how.
You got that wrong. They are making their operating systems more like the mobile platforms they have, the difference is Microsoft is trying to use one OS for all their devices, while iOS and OSX will remain separate OS's. The main gripe I have with Lion etc. is that they're trying to make OSX look like an iOS system, complete with the Mac store etc.

Microsoft are taking that even further with a development environment made for simple apps that will work in both desktop and phone etc. platforms supposedly. An App store is in the works as well. IMO Microsoft might be in for some weird and messy problems making a touch/mouse/mobile app and regular application, while the iOS + OSX route has probably led to some funny tech calls.

That's what I meant, they are making the desktops work like phones, basically so people are constantly buying apps or whatever. But Windows 8 might be a nightmare, or it might rock... We don't know yet. But dollars to donuts it will have a, "command prompt, and an explorer," and you will be able to turn certain things on and off.

That said.......... an app store that you can not get rid of, is frikkin scary, on mac or pc...
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Forge.
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by Forge. » Sat May 05, 2012 5:20 am

Linear Phase wrote: In Windows I feel like I have a lot more control, and "tweakability." And that is probably true for the AVERAGE USER. Not for the Computer Professional, or for people who know a lot, lot, lot, about how the OS works. or OS X works.. etc, etc.
interestingly enough I used to feel like that with windows after working with it since the 3.1/DOS days, but after switching fully to mac again about 4 years ago I have found recently when I've had to go back to windows for certain things I was surprised how much of it I'd forgotten and had to look up - in other words I think a lot of the 'tweakability' with windows is very much a learned thing and not so easy when you haven't spent a long time doing it.

Although admittedly it was a hell of a lot harder when I started because I had to look things up in books the size of 2 x yellow pages as we didn't have this 'internet' thing back then! ;-) These days it's pretty easy to look things up. Just saying I was surprised how out of the loop I felt by having that break.

masterblasterofdisaster
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Sat May 05, 2012 6:04 am

Linear Phase wrote:
masterblasterofdisaster wrote:OS X is built on top of FreeBSD, which is a UNIX derivative - where UNIX is essentially the definition of configurability, as far as low level OS stuff goes. Though, I think it's probably likely your definition of configurability and mine might be somewhat different.
See now.. You are talking about, "low level OS," and I'm talking about, "average computer musician." News flash.. A lot of the music producers may be more aware of how computers work than average people, but that does not mean a music producer is the next hot shot, coding at Ableton or Native Instruments.

I owned a Macbook Pro for like 2 years, 3 years.. I liked it. Nice OS.. Great for them. but frankly I never saw the registry. I never got beyond the curtain..

In Windows I feel like I have a lot more control, and "tweakability." And that is probably true for the AVERAGE USER. Not for the Computer Professional, or for people who know a lot, lot, lot, about how the OS works. or OS X works.. etc, etc.

I should have been more clear
Yeah, I get that the 'average computer musician' has different needs than myself (and it's good that you've qualified your statement, thanks). Though, I still have to say, I'm not sure what it is you're missing from OS X versus Windows. To me, the nice thing about OS X is that I have a UNIX shell and I can basically do whatever, while simultaneously, my 65 year old mother, who couldn't figure out how to operate a VHS deck, can use it quite successfully.

In my experience, if you can't figure out what to do in OS X (not talking about the unix shell, here, but the GUI), the best bet is to assume ignorance, and things tend to work out quite well. Indeed, this is why I've convinced my parents to use it. There is no veil to be lifted in regards to understanding the graphics driven aspect of the OS: it just works as even the naive and inexperienced would assume...

Why are you concerned that you "never saw the registry" ? That seems odd to me - I don't really understand the issue. If anything, the registry in Windows is (or at least was) a giant flaming PITA, as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, I really don't know what you mean by your perceived difference in tweakability. What do you want to tweak?

Rave
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by Rave » Sat May 05, 2012 8:28 am

Just create a partition using lions disk utility and install SL I do this. SL is my production os.

Linear Phase
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by Linear Phase » Sat May 05, 2012 10:40 am

masterblasterofdisaster wrote: I'm not sure what it is you're missing from OS X versus Windows.
Its a Zen thing. Zen and the art of windows.
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masterblasterofdisaster
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Sat May 05, 2012 3:58 pm

Anyway, back to the thread topic - I haven't installed Lion yet.

Been holding off for a couple of reasons:

1) no compelling reason to move away from Snow Leopard.
2) been taking my time interpreting the misgivings some people seem to have with Lion.

masterblasterofdisaster
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by masterblasterofdisaster » Sat May 05, 2012 4:07 pm

Linear Phase wrote:
masterblasterofdisaster wrote: I'm not sure what it is you're missing from OS X versus Windows.
Its a Zen thing. Zen and the art of windows.
Wait a sec... are you making a reference to "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" ?

Elevated01
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by Elevated01 » Sat May 05, 2012 5:22 pm

I'm being forced to upgrade to Lion, because I'm hooked on MobileMe for calendar and contact syncing :

oslonovski
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by oslonovski » Sun May 06, 2012 10:09 pm

While some lion features are nice, I've went back to SL for the time being.
Got tired of audio issues and crap apogee drivers. Which is pretty fucking
hilarious for a mac only company.
Lion is more resource hungry. Safari leaks memory like a motherfucker,
Mail eats cpu cycles for no apparent reason.
OSX still lacks many features every other *nix and windows even had for ages.
But I guess there's a higher demand for ios like scrolling than for a fucking iSCSI initiator.
Don't like new yearly release cycle either, it will make them kill off SL sooner.
And major update brakes something every single time.

Piplodocus
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Re: Hating Lion and going backwards?

Post by Piplodocus » Fri May 18, 2012 11:55 am

I like Lion, mostly because of Mission control. Lots better than spaces. Constantly swipe between Fullscreen Ableton and other stuff. Not sure I could go back now.
Fullscreen apps. Yay! (obviously works in conjunction with Mission Control nicely.
I like using the "Arrange by", (and then holding Alt/Option to) "Sort by" in Finder. Everything appears in sensible orders in nice categories. Not my folders randomly interspersed among my other files.
Resizing by any corner (esp when combined with cmd/alt)

So overall I prefer Lion except:
  • Can't swipe back in iTunes when within an artist, or in Finder to go back.
    Grey sidebar icons. Found a hack to get coloured ones back, but even with that in Finder you have to "Relaunch" Finder after a reboot, and you don't get coloured icons in Open/Save dialog boxes.
    No pinch to zoom in Finder

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