Injustice and the Greek Crisis

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:58 am

So you spent 6 pages saying that anyone who's struggling deserves everything they get, just to get a rise out of people. Then you can claim to be the biggest humanitarian here and make the thread all about how much better than us haoles you are.

Classy.

Any interest in the thread topic at all?

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:46 pm

wait... i'm sorry. did i miss the part where he volunteered and got himself to the Gulf Coast by his own means? which page is that on?

it must be on one of them because doing what the military tells you to do doesn't make you a kinder and more compassionate person. it means you can follow orders. a Labrador can do that.

is this what my tax dollars got me - Levi waving it in my face that i was paying for his trip/pedestal out of my paycheck?

regretfullySaid · Post by **regretfullySaid** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:03 pm

Yeah sounds like a good time to go AWOL from civilian life. Once you check in you never check out.

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:48 pm

^ it's cute huh? he calls us a bunch of law breaking druggies (even if we never actually stated we get high) who are ripping off the American public, but yet we (the tax paying Americans on the forum) all pitched in to pay for his boots, his food, his sleeping arrangements, his transportation, his health care, his high horse he's preaching from, and even put cash $$$ in his pockets.

@ Levi - i want my money back.
when i buy a G.I.Joe i want it for the kung-fu grip, not the circle jerk.

regretfullySaid · Post by **regretfullySaid** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:18 pm

It's sad if someone thinks that being a prick is something to earn, like it's something to strive for but you need a good enough excuse to have a right to be one. That's fucked up. It's like paying someone to be your friend. My discharge is more honorable.

Kind of funny he'll have to follow orders from a civilian that, for all he knows, could be a tax-evading stoner hippy fairy in order to not get banned

AceLuby · Post by **AceLuby** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:48 pm

Another awesome thread...

Levi, it's not charity when you have to do it for your job. You signed up for the job and were forced to do all those things, that doesn't make you charitable, it makes you a soldier, something nearly everybody can do.

You aren't special.

docprosper · Post by **docprosper** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:33 pm

AceLuby wrote:... it makes you a soldier, something nearly everybody can do.

You aren't special.

one could argue that folks who make comments like this are prime examples of those who couldn't be soldiers, at least not good ones

. But I'm not here to pick a fight about that on these forums, I think i'd be outgunned... Pun intended. The overly anti- military comments by some in this thread, IMO, only help justify levi's belief that he's a victim of all you/us leftist hippies, I'd just call him an asshole and leave it at that. He's a poor spokesman for the military, and for humanity to boot.

Forge. · Post by **Forge.** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:21 pm

andydes wrote:I've just had a horrible thought. What if Levi isn't just trolling and actually believes the shit he's saying. I've just had a huge swell of pity for the man.

Imagine a bitter and resentful man who spends his life bitching to strangers that a small proportion of his taxes go to help those less fortunate. He looses his job and home in the third wave of global recession. Too proud to accept anything from people who are more than happy to help him get back on his feet, he dies alone in a gutter, still complaining about dope heads. What a tragic waste of a life.

Charles dickins would struggle to come up with a more sad and pathetic character.

I only just saw this post. Don't ask me why the fuck I was reading this thread.

but anyway, this post made me chuckle

but then I have smoked A FEW BIFTERS!!!

AceLuby · Post by **AceLuby** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:09 pm

docprosper wrote:
AceLuby wrote:... it makes you a soldier, something nearly everybody can do.

You aren't special.
one could argue that folks who make comments like this are prime examples of those who couldn't be soldiers, at least not good ones . But I'm not here to pick a fight about that on these forums, I think i'd be outgunned... Pun intended. The overly anti- military comments by some in this thread, IMO, only help justify levi's belief that he's a victim of all you/us leftist hippies, I'd just call him an asshole and leave it at that. He's a poor spokesman for the military, and for humanity to boot.

You can't deny that almost anyone can get into the military. It was not intended to be anti-military statement, however, I don't think people in the military are more or less special because of the job they chose to work. People who think because of the career they chose to do makes them a better human than someone else are usually asshats. That's also not to say we shouldn't support our troops, just simply that not all of them deserve to be put on a pedestal simply because they enlist.

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:04 pm

AceLuby wrote:
docprosper wrote:
AceLuby wrote:... it makes you a soldier, something nearly everybody can do.

You aren't special.
one could argue that folks who make comments like this are prime examples of those who couldn't be soldiers, at least not good ones . But I'm not here to pick a fight about that on these forums, I think i'd be outgunned... Pun intended. The overly anti- military comments by some in this thread, IMO, only help justify levi's belief that he's a victim of all you/us leftist hippies, I'd just call him an asshole and leave it at that. He's a poor spokesman for the military, and for humanity to boot.
You can't deny that almost anyone can get into the military. It was not intended to be anti-military statement, however, I don't think people in the military are more or less special because of the job they chose to work. People who think because of the career they chose to do makes them a better human than someone else are usually asshats. That's also not to say we shouldn't support our troops, just simply that not all of them deserve to be put on a pedestal simply because they enlist.

agreed.

my "a Labrador can follow orders" statement just a few posts above was meant in the same spirit. the military will make you a lot of things by default... more disciplined, more educated, more experienced, and those who serve definitely deserve a head nod IMO (even Levi), but the fact remains that being in the military (or not) will not make you a better or worse person... that onus is on the individual.

docprosper · Post by **docprosper** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:57 pm

+1 to both of you, I guess it's group hug time

earthloop · Post by **earthloop** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:40 pm

WOW...when I started this thread I had no idea that it would explode into what it did! (or should I say, get hijacked).

I got busy so I couldn't get back to it until now.

I asked the original question because I am preparing a PhD. proposal based on an idea about how we might develop human settlements in a different way to the centralised urban (city) based model we have had since the Industrial Revolution. My research into this subject lead me to do what they always advise in movies about crime and corruption: 'follow the money'. In doing this, I realised just how beholden we are at the local level to the source of money...I mean the source of the money that our local banks lend to us to buy a house etc.

This money always comes with strings, and can be manipulated in ways we have no local control over, and THAT is what made me look at the Greek crisis in a different way. What the central Euro bank, the IMF etc are demanding is not about getting money repaid... it is about power. It is about exerting control by demonstrating that they who control money control your life. They are about enforcing their control of the rules about how money may be spent, and on what. It goes waaay beyond simply getting paid back. I was just looking for opinions/feedback/discussion from people to see if people in general had any thoughts on this subject.(I was going to refer to you all as 'average' people, but suddenly realised that this may be an indelicate way to refer to the venerable members here

)

This has big ramifications for the way housing, in particular, is funded, and and I have a strong personal interest in the issue of how global financial institutions control our everyday lives through strategies like determining the terms under which people can buy or build a house. They do this, of course, by determining what kind of house they will provide a mortgage for, and this ultimately determines how much debt you are going to end up taking on if you want your own home. (and this is not an unreasonable desire). Having somewhere to live; shelter, is fundamental to life, let alone a civilised one.

The most important part of this is that we have been stripped of the choice to build a cheaper house if that is what we can afford. This may be different in other parts of the world, but here in Australia we are so controlled by planning laws which favour 'modern' and 'standard' types of houses that it is very hard to create a house which may not conform...the bank won't lend you the money to build a 'cheap' house (or more importantly, buy the land which must of course be serviced with power, water etc). The local domestic lenders (banks) get their money from the larger commercial banks who impose their own risk criteria on those smaller banks who lend to us for housing etc. A cheaper house is a smaller loan, and therefor not a good profit generator for lenders. The irony is, of course, that the smaller the loan, the less the risk (to the lender AND the borrower)!

What has all this got to do with the Greek crisis, and any perceived injustice contained therein? It is all about massive amounts of money being traded around with the resulting control over those who borrow it. The lender decides the terms, and often the 'customer' must accept terms which are hostile to their own needs. Eventually this form of control corrupts the basic processes of local communities which are the basic unit of modern civilisation.

...Ummm, stop me if you are getting bored. I am just getting started.

It is so hard to stop myself writing an essay because it is a complex subject. Hard to make sense in a few paragraphs.

Anywayyy, THAT is why I posted in the first place. Any thoughts??? (or should I just say 'discuss'! )

LoopStationZebra · Post by **LoopStationZebra** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:47 pm

earthloop wrote: based on an idea about how we might develop human settlements in a different way to the centralised urban (city) based model we have had since the Industrial Revolution.

How do I just know that this new model is going to involve MASSIVE TAXES and WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION and UNPRECEDENTED ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS?

simmerdown · Post by **simmerdown** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:53 pm

lol, omg i am imagining your face as you read this whole thread

, sorry earthloop

latest i heard germany was over it with bailing them out, and may just let them fall...apparently they feel confident that the eu can withstand the shock with the recent juggling theyve been doing.......

i see greece as the canary in the coalmine...i think the whole house of cards (worldwide) is about to fall, whether accidentally, or "accidentally"

H20nly · Post by **H20nly** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:02 pm

yeah sorry earthloop.

earthloop wrote:I asked the original question because I am preparing a PhD. proposal based on an idea about how we might develop human settlements in a different way to the centralised urban (city) based model we have had since the Industrial Revolution. My research into this subject lead me to do what they always advise in movies about crime and corruption: 'follow the money'. In doing this, I realised just how beholden we are at the local level to the source of money...I mean the source of the money that our local banks lend to us to buy a house etc.

This money always comes with strings, and can be manipulated in ways we have no local control over, and THAT is what made me look at the Greek crisis in a different way.

the problem with Banks at the level they are at now is that it's like a puppet show... you borrow from one institution, but unbeknownst to you at the time... your loan is being clumped with other peoples loans to make one big loan that is passed off to another (typically much higher altitude) institution. Another scenario is that you get a loan with Bank A and Bank B buys or merges with Bank A. in the latter scenario you are sent a new terms and conditions slip that uses the same verbiage as the first, which amounts to "we can change this pretty much whenever we want". in both scenarios you are no longer working with the original lender.

if this was done in a bar with a loan shark it would be illegal, but when it's big business the ethics turn from simple concepts that can be explained by words to mathematical formulations and redistribution that you more than likely cannot understand without being Rain Man and/or having a Wall Street qualified education.

gone are the days of borrowing X amount and paying it back with X amount of interest as step one and step 2. the paying it back part has so many potholes that it may as well be a picture of the moon.

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