is the tech killing technique?

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
bartend7
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:12 am
Contact:

is the tech killing technique?

Post by bartend7 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:41 am

with all the tech, is personal skill being being lost? is technique disappearing as computers do it for us? maybe not right now, but i'm looking like 30 years in the future. will it just be a bunch of plugins doing shit for us then? is the technique of an acoustic musician doomed to a future of only concert halls/conservatories? Hopefully there will always be a need for solid technically skilled musicians. it seems as though its disappearing atleast in musicians ability to make a living from playing an instrument. sure it will always be there, but i'm not sure if the profession of music will exist much longer, atleast for acoustic performing musicians anyway.

thoughts / rebuttals// no interest at all. if you dont respond or read i will assume you agree with me completely.

simmerdown
Posts: 3761
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Northwest Nowhere

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by simmerdown » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:34 am

...it is for me anyway

since i got into Live my bass has been collecting dust

damn you Ab!

Angstrom
Posts: 14659
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by Angstrom » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:45 am

Hmm, Nah I think not.
I'm a sad out of touch old man but I think that the more all-pervasive technology becomes in culture then the human things become more valuable (as they become more rare). Computerised music is human, but a lot of what we hear is too easily produced. That means it's fucking everywhere.
People value rare things.

In the 1930s they thought we'd all be eating fast food spurted out of a tube in a paste, and that the kitchen would cease to exist as a toom in the house. Now, we know that fast food is a vast part of the modern diet, but I'd also say that the modern diet is more varied and more deeply considered than ever before.

I'm guessing that's what will happen to music.
There will be a lot of 'fast-food music' available, but also be a lot of value placed on the deeper stuff, which might well become fancier than ever.

I've been playing guitar and bass more than I have in years.

Image

DangerousDave
Posts: 799
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 4:19 am
Location: LA

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by DangerousDave » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:22 am

Angstrom wrote:I'm guessing that's what will happen to music.
There will be a lot of 'fast-food music' available, but also be a lot of value placed on the deeper stuff, which might well become fancier than ever.
Word, I am not even an old man, more like a young lad around here, but I totally agree. Hegel was right about stuff like this, they often follow a dialectical pattern. Music with less musicianship and more technology might be trending right now, and may always have a place in music, but the trend will certainly return to a more natural state which contains traditional instrumental elements imo. I think we are already starting to see it here and there with more indie bands that incorporate electronic music elements into their live acts which also include analog and acoustic instruments. People will naturally tire of detuned saw waves just as much as any other musical element, and a return to more traditional values is likely. Ultimately, I think people have a genuine interest in the humanity of music. Even though a large goal today is to take things to the extreme, and make them sound completely artificial and robotic, I believe this is just a result of exploring the boundaries, and slowly but surely we will come full swing.

I definitely play my guitars less after I found live, but before that the guitar was my only musical outlet. Now music has a larger role as a whole in my life. In other words I play the guitar less, but the number of musical outlets I have and its overall impact on my life certainly increased.
https://soundcloud.com/unearthproductions
beats me wrote:everybody around you thinks you’re a fucking idiot.

Forge.
Posts: 5792
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by Forge. » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:26 am

my latest bit of kit is a $35 megaphone for the tom waits sound. I've fucked around creating sounds like that for a long time, then I decided to do it real junk yard poet style.

But if anything computer music can kill the vibe more than technique just because there is so much to get lost in and you actually have to learn a lot more. You have to be an audio engineer as well as a musician.

pepezabala
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: In Berlin, finally

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by pepezabala » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:40 am

last week we played a gig at a club where they had a salsa-band playing later in the night. it's so cool to see good instrumentalists playing hot music. Three brass players and a good percussionist are definetly something that makes you move your ass (especially if the sax player is a beautiful female). The club was packed with people dancing. I can't see that there would be no future for this. I mean this style of music is around since maybe 50 years, and while there might be some cool salsa-DJs as well, there are at least a dozen places in town where they have bands playing and hundreds of people dancing to them. And that's only one style out of dozens that deserve to being played live by skilled musicians. Then there is Jazz, Flamenco, Rumba, Manouche, Blues, Swing, Afrobeat, Reggae, Punkrock, Pubrock, Metal, ... all stuff that most people enjoy most when it's being played live.

bartend7
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:12 am
Contact:

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by bartend7 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:01 am

Angstrom wrote:Hmm, Nah I think not.
That means it's fucking everywhere.
People value rare things.......
I'm guessing that's what will happen to music.
There will be a lot of 'fast-food music' available, but also be a lot of value placed on the deeper stuff, which might well become fancier than ever.

Image
I really hope your right. I too have been playing acoustic instruments more years than not. Dont get me wrong, I love the technology, and i"m all for change but the low learning curve on electroinic music scares me.

Forge.
Posts: 5792
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by Forge. » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:27 am

pepezabala wrote:last week we played a gig at a club where they had a salsa-band playing later in the night. it's so cool to see good instrumentalists playing hot music. Three brass players and a good percussionist are definetly something that makes you move your ass (especially if the sax player is a beautiful female). The club was packed with people dancing. I can't see that there would be no future for this. I mean this style of music is around since maybe 50 years, and while there might be some cool salsa-DJs as well, there are at least a dozen places in town where they have bands playing and hundreds of people dancing to them. And that's only one style out of dozens that deserve to being played live by skilled musicians. Then there is Jazz, Flamenco, Rumba, Manouche, Blues, Swing, Afrobeat, Reggae, Punkrock, Pubrock, Metal, ... .
you make me want to come to Barcelona!

Actually I went to a Brazilian night here last year and I was amazed how packed out it was... great band with all the drums etc.... I guess salsa, although I think there is another name that he said that I forgot... I really love latin music, I should have written it down!

lately I've been more into african drumming and celtic music. I feel like I have largely grown out of club music - partly because I don't take the drugs these days

I think it's really important to keep the focus on the music first, and technology last as a tool to record and produce

it's too easy to get caught up in checking email

rbmonosylabik
Posts: 2659
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:27 am

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by rbmonosylabik » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:41 am

Check out this movie: https://vimeo.com/34608191

On some points I agreed completely, others I could debate, but a part that really resonated with me was when they talk about how someone in a recording studio can deliver a less than stellar performance and expect the engineer to fix it. I've been in that position a few times, both with myself as both performer and engineer and recording someone else, and more often than not it does feel like you're taking away something rather than adding to the music by hammering everything into perfection.

I recently saw this talk by Tony Visconti where he told the story of how they recorded Bowie's Heroes. He says they had a 24 track tape recorder, and when the whole arrangement and backing vocals were laid down and it was time to record the lead vocals, they only had one track left. So he set 3 mics down the studio hallway, one near Bowie and the other two gated, one halfway down the corridor and the other all the way back, so they would open up and he'd get different ambience sound depending on the dynamics Bowie put into his singing, and record it all to the remaining track. So Bowie would lay down a whole take, they'd listen to it, and on the spot they had to decide if that was the take or if he could do a better one because there was no way to save it and go back. That limitation led to an amazing vocal performance for that song.

WIth everything we have available now, limitations like those are hard to come by, so now we have to come up with our own music making process that will naturally create limits. I think we're getting to a point where people that really love music, both musicians and listeners, understand so much more about how a recording is made and how a live performance is pulled off, that the process by which you get to a result will become as important as the music itself, where these limitations you create and face will have an impact on your sound and be meaningful to your audience, and that's where the technique in whatever you do will shine through.
Image

MBP 2.3 GHz i5, Live 9.6.1, Push, MPD32, Rane SL2

bartend7
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:12 am
Contact:

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by bartend7 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:58 pm

@ rbmonosylabik
thanks for that video post.. got to only watch first 5 minutes but will definitely be checking it out. looks great though.

Tarekith
Posts: 17304
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by Tarekith » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:03 am

That's a great video, I watched that a couple weeks ago and passed it on to lot of people I know. Really well done.

k-toh
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:29 pm
Location: Hants, UK
Contact:

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by k-toh » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:10 pm

Definitely interesting post and links.

The reference to fast food is a pertinent one I think, it's an example of convenience versus excellence, and it runs through everything in life. No doubt there are more exclusive top class restaurants now than there were before, it counter balances the convenience for those who seek perfection. I think it'll remain that way in music aswell, there'll always be a place for excellence alongside the convenience. You only need to look at the revival of vinyl records to see that there is still a place for perceived excellence in the listening experience, despite the initial 'upgrade' to CD and then onto mp3 and downloadable music.

It's true that the quality end of the scale shrinks, but it improves as it does so :)

Mint Invader
Posts: 1508
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 2:37 pm

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by Mint Invader » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:58 pm

Short answer... yes.

Long answer....





YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Because Whatever.

Sage
Posts: 1102
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:16 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by Sage » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:14 pm

Popular music has always been low on technique.

Komodovaran
Posts: 985
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:20 am

Re: is the tech killing technique?

Post by Komodovaran » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:22 pm

Music will at the same time be easier and harder to make. Some make it as easy as possible for themselves. Some use capabilities of modern technology to the very edge to create what they do.

But popular commercial music has always been shallow and predictable.

Also, remember, like everything else, music constantly evolves too. If acoustic guitar can't compete anymore, it dies, much like every second track on the radio doesn't contain lute strumming.

Post Reply