Ableton Forum

You should feel honored to get a 3 page rant for asking a question (unless it goes ot)
Sometimes it could just depend on the day and people's moods. As long as your skin is thick who cares?
It's your life and you need to know what you need to know, whether you get pounced on by snarks or not.

There are some people who have always been given handouts like money, answers and labor and they don't know the concept of being self-sufficient; that can be a blood boiler.

But hey, we all gotta crawl before we can walk; walk before we can run, blah blah...

Just posting "RTFM" is rude but posting "RTFM Page 65 paragraph 2" is just using RTFM as a figure of speech - IMO. You can interpret it as "Refer To Full Manual" if it makes you feel better - but someone has taken the question seriously and actually found the right bit of the manual - so it's hardly dismissive.

shadx312 wrote:You should feel honored to get a 3 page rant for asking a question (especially if it goes ot)

Fixed.

dont be daunted, just some old fashioned hazing, lol

simmerdown wrote:dont be daunted, just some old fashioned hazing, lol

This is nothing like my Boy Scout experience of 35ish years ago ...

crumhorn wrote:Just posting "RTFM" is rude but posting "RTFM Page 65 paragraph 2" is just using RTFM as a figure of speech - IMO. You can interpret it as "Refer To Full Manual" if it makes you feel better - but someone has taken the question seriously and actually found the right bit of the manual - so it's hardly dismissive.

Yeah, anybody thinking that someone is being rude for making them read the manual after being told what page to look at for the information is the one being obnoxious, not the person who took the time to find it in the manual for them.

In fact that's standard practice on the Digital Performer board I visit as DP doesn't have a PDF of the manual so it's a sort of indicator as to whether you have a legitimate copy or not.

Machinesworking wrote:

crumhorn wrote:Just posting "RTFM" is rude but posting "RTFM Page 65 paragraph 2" is just using RTFM as a figure of speech - IMO. You can interpret it as "Refer To Full Manual" if it makes you feel better - but someone has taken the question seriously and actually found the right bit of the manual - so it's hardly dismissive.

Yeah, anybody thinking that someone is being rude for making them read the manual after being told what page to look at for the information is the one being obnoxious, not the person who took the time to find it in the manual for them.

In fact that's standard practice on the Digital Performer board I visit as DP doesn't have a PDF of the manual so it's a sort of indicator as to whether you have a legitimate copy or not.

The Official 8.2 PDF and Printed manuals are different documents... page 65 p2 isn't exactly a data mine of answers: "The Arrangement view is a powerful editing tool that... [does the things sequencers do]" - my paraphrase in brackets. And there are multiple versions of the manual; P.p reference numbers don't mean a thing. Looks to me like Snarky's standing on very thin ice.

JeffreyCJohnson wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

crumhorn wrote:Just posting "RTFM" is rude but posting "RTFM Page 65 paragraph 2" is just using RTFM as a figure of speech - IMO. You can interpret it as "Refer To Full Manual" if it makes you feel better - but someone has taken the question seriously and actually found the right bit of the manual - so it's hardly dismissive.

Yeah, anybody thinking that someone is being rude for making them read the manual after being told what page to look at for the information is the one being obnoxious, not the person who took the time to find it in the manual for them.

In fact that's standard practice on the Digital Performer board I visit as DP doesn't have a PDF of the manual so it's a sort of indicator as to whether you have a legitimate copy or not.

The Official 8.2 PDF and Printed manuals are different documents... page 65 p2 isn't exactly a data mine of answers: "The Arrangement view is a powerful editing tool that... [does the things sequencers do]" - my paraphrase in brackets. And there are multiple versions of the manual; P.p reference numbers don't mean a thing. Looks to me like Snarky's standing on very thin ice.

I just plucked those numbers out of the air to make the point - I have absolutely no idea what is on page 65 or if it even has more than one paragraph.

But if you look at page 16 (which was in the answer that the OP is winging about) you will see a good description of the difference between session and arrangement view clips and the purpose of the Back To Arrangement button. Which is most like what the OP needed to know to solve his problem.

But hey - why am I defending someone I don't even know? Maybe it's because I get so pissed off with the ungrateful, ignorant bastards that just take other peoples time and effort for granted.

example - here is the thread that provoked this outburst -> http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=178035
Notice that the OP never replies to the thread once the probable cause is given. No "Oh thanks that solved my problem" or "Thank's but I tried that and it makes no difference". instead he starts this thread complaining about snarky musicians.

here's another example -> http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176808

crumhorn wrote: But hey - why am I defending someone I don't even know? Maybe it's because I get so pissed off with the ungrateful, ignorant bastards that just take other peoples time and effort for granted.

Thanks all the same. Next time I'll use RTLM.

He "literally" can't believe? - fuck that guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAIww1VR ... ata_player

Fair enough. I stumbled across a "Show all" command in the browser yesterday, and I realized the familiar nature of the program means there are more than a couple engineers at Ableton who cut their dos teeth using xtree. To say I'm flattered is an understatement.

JeffreyCJohnson wrote: The Official 8.2 PDF and Printed manuals are different documents...

Everyone has the PDF, not everyone has the printed manual. So which one in this case would it make sense to use as a reference?
Only one guess now, but you have a 50/50 chance of being right!

My point remains, someone answers your question with a reference to the manual you should be grateful, not annoyed that you have figure out which 'manual' to look at, and that there's a chance that you might have to skim forwards or backwards to find the part that's relevant to you. Snarky I can deal with, spoiled brats pissing about their free advice not being handed to them in a form they approve of? Sorry if I don't take that well.

...must be a mac

simmerdown wrote:...must be a mac

You're a mac!