Well that's the selfish part really isn't it. You're saying - fuck everything else, it can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned I just wants me some music. That's an observation, not a criticism.stringtapper wrote:For the most part it is not all of the things that most people don't like about human existence that could be summed up into one term like "human suffering" (dubstep notwithstanding). I'm using the term "redeem" in the strictest sense of something that is considered positive compensating for something negative. Although in my case it's not so much a positive/negative duality but rather what I would rather spend my time and brain power thinking about.cmcpress wrote:what exactly do you find redemptive about music?
Well - I was specifically referring to no moral judgement on selfishness as it refers to creating music - but I can see how you would construe it in that light in the context of the whole thread.stringtapper wrote:Oh come one. The people in this thread talking about corporations or governments being the roots of everything that is "wrong" with human existence? Those are quite clearly moral arguments at least inasmuch as they imply an existing condition that is "negative" and "should" be changed.cmcpress wrote:No one pushing a moral agenda from this end - so far. A matter of fact isn't a moral agenda. Debating something isn't pushing an agenda. Calling a selfish act a selfish act doesn't imply judgement unless you feel that selfishness is inherently wrong, whatever that means.
No one is saying that 8 Billion humans will ever agree on one right way. and it would be terrifically boring and inflexible if they did. But there are practical solutions to practical problems that can achievable measurable results - depending on whether people can agree on what the problems are (which is half the battle).stringtapper wrote:In my opinion it's not allowing myself to be deluded into thinking that 8 billion humans will ever agree on one right way that they should all live or one set of right principle on which to base their actions and thus human suffering will continue. I also believe it will be this way irrespective of who is in charge or has influence over what. Corporations vs. government? Obviously a left vs right issue and it's clear where most people in this thread stand, which is fairly predictable seeing as it's a forum that's going to attract people who tend to default to left wind positions. I don't see that any differently than if we were on a gun forum and 90% of the people were writing long posts about how it's the government we should fear. To my mind people are predisposed to these points of view based on how they grew up and what kind of environments they gravitate towards adults. The point is people like to act like they know exactly what is going on and why, and they also know exactly who to blame and how to fix it. I see it from both my conservative and liberal friends on FaceBook every day. It's annoying and frankly boring how predictable people can be. Most music isn't boring (to me).cmcpress wrote:And that's rather the point isn't it. I don't know you well enough to ascertain whether that's worldly cynicism or sitting on a misplaced fence, or even if there's any difference.
I agree that people have natural perceptual biases - but people can and frequently do change their minds on issues if they become involved in debate. Even people and society's who's attitudes are deemed to be inflexible, can frequently change their attitudes as a result of a reasoned debate. Often it's those who represent the most fixed stances that are on the weakest ground.
For my self - in British terms, I was raised in a very conservative family and parroted conservative values for years until I began to question them - As I'm older I take a very centrist position thinking that points on each side have merits.
There's no harm in being involved in debate - even if it seems fruitless - as I said above - simply expressing your opinion is a way of testing it to see if it holds validity or not. Whether one chooses to accept, or refute any knocks on your position depends upon how open you are to testing your convictions.
As to the validity of a conversation on this forum - it's just shooting shit really isn't it? There's no harm in expressing points of view, and at the end of the day you must have cared just a little bit to come in this thread and engage in the first place?
if he wasn't so busy taking people to the Bridge.stringtapper wrote:But Marvin might actually have the ability to figure out how to vaporize 8 billion people.