Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

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Machinesworking
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:13 am

djadonis206 wrote:I'd like to point out that no one has said what it is exactly about corporations that scares them more than governments.

Government scares me more because they can imprison me for no reason and kill me without being prosecuted.

Moreover, they draft and implement laws which can restrict my freedom of speech and movement.


And before you say corps can give you cancer or steal your money, I'd like to point out it's the government's responsibility from preventing that from happening
Well again, in a capitalism the government becomes an extension of big business. This is a definite case where Godwins Law doesn't apply because it's a necessity to remind oneself that the Nazi Party was basically the underdog party until they got the financial backing of big business in Germany. In our particular form of government, corporations hold the real power, can you explain why you think they don't or are you talking from a theoretical perspective instead of from the perspective of our own current economic and political climate?

cmcpress
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by cmcpress » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:56 pm

djadonis206 wrote:I'd like to point out that no one has said what it is exactly about corporations that scares them more than governments.
actually I gave you exact reasons.

1. Because Corporations due to their legal status as individuals that leads to:
2. decisions being made by many people meaning there is little ownership breeding a psychopathic mentality
3. Because corporations have a legal responsibility to their shareholders first which gives rise to situations such as GM Motors in the 90's evaluating the cost of law suits against the cost of following regulation by installing safety features (ie it was cheaper to pay out in lawsuits than it was to install health and safety measures).
4. a) Because (the) Corporations (that I fear) are multinational whereas Governments are local and this leads them to being in some cases above the law (as in the case of Banks threatening to take their business elsewhere),
b) Can ruin economies
c) Can unduly influence government through lobbying, offering lucrative careers for ministers post term and so forth
5. Corporations are not directly answerable to the people.
djadonis206 wrote:Government scares me more because they can imprison me for no reason and kill me without being prosecuted.


Even in tyrannical dictatorships it's not as easy as this. You have to bear in mind that governments (as in all organisations) are made up of groups of people - from the members of parliament through to the heads of the army and so on. Not all of these agree and tyrannical dictatorships always need their army on side. Take Egypt for example - when the people rose up the government's position was no longer tenable as the army didn't want to wade in and kill unarmed civilians.

Taking the holocaust as the worst possible example (and at the risk of reductio ad hitlerum) - even this was very hard for the Nazi Government to do - they had to use euphemisms in order to even hint at it and one General was even relieved of duty for talking about it openly. In fact the decision was made by a Polish Camp Commander at first IIRC, and it just snowballed.

It's very hard for a government to openly commit atrocities because it risks alienating it's public. And a government that has alienated it's public is, at some point, going to end badly.

Whilst you may say "Oh well Corporations don't cause the Holocaust" - actually Some, Like Farber were actively involved and encouraged it - from using slave labour to manufacturing Zyklon-B.

Also - take Bhopal where Dow have never accepted responsibility for the horrible disaster there, or Nigeria where Corporations have private armies and have bought off the government in order to run Oil rigs that are completely destroying the environment there. Governments are responsible for enforcing regulations - but Corporations own Governments so much that they don't.

See you're whole question is flawed, because in some instances there is no clear distinction between the Corporate world and the Governmental world - they are both entwined. This means that you can't really split it into the binary question - "who are you afraid of more".

djadonis206 wrote:Moreover, they draft and implement laws which can restrict my freedom of speech and movement
As can Corporations in effect - by using Libel, Copyright or other laws. This happened very recently in the UK as part of the Olympics.
djadonis206 wrote:And before you say corps can give you cancer or steal your money, I'd like to point out it's the government's responsibility from preventing that from happening
It's a chicken and egg situation - who are you afraid of more? The government who aren't bringing in or enforcing legislative controls or the corporations who are paying them not to introduce or enforce governmental laws. The whole system of apportioning blame to one or the other is fucking ridiculous.

Short answer - we need governments to introduce sensible legislation that fosters enterprise but protects the populace. It's nonsensical for a corporation or a right winger to say that legislation should be repealed as it's stifling enterprise. We need enterprise but not at the cost of lives, and corporations, as members of society have a duty to society also. Similarly we need Governments who don't introduce draconian legislation on ideological grounds.

stringtapper
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by stringtapper » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:34 pm

funken wrote:So, we are probably stuck with capitalism until it destroys the planet. That reminds me, did Strapper ever say why he wanted the human race wiped out?
To end human suffering of course.
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scott nathaniel
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by scott nathaniel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:56 pm

stringtapper wrote:
funken wrote:So, we are probably stuck with capitalism until it destroys the planet. That reminds me, did Strapper ever say why he wanted the human race wiped out?
To end human suffering of course.
Perhaps you need to couch your phrasing in euphemisms. How about, humane euthanasia?

stringtapper
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by stringtapper » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:09 pm

funken wrote:How does wiping out the human race end suffering? Ok we won't be suffering…
Glad you worked that out on your own. Let me know if I can clarify anything else.

funken wrote:And we will suffer during the process of being wiped out.
Not necessarily. Come on I thought you were a scientist. Where's your imagination?

funken wrote:Where are you coming from?
I'm from Texas. What does that have to do with anything?

funken wrote:I thought it was maybe something like an extreme eco kinda reason.
That's a good reason too. Add that to the list.

funken wrote:Allegedly the illuminati want to wipe out 90% of the human race, but that's another story.
Ooooookaaaaay. Nice talking to you.

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cmcpress
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by cmcpress » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:49 am

stringtapper wrote:
funken wrote:So, we are probably stuck with capitalism until it destroys the planet. That reminds me, did Strapper ever say why he wanted the human race wiped out?
To end human suffering of course.
blimey, no wonder you're not very cheery.

I believe the Buddhists have a pill for that, side effects include loss of desire and worldly attachments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra

Goddard
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by Goddard » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:24 am

I was really astonished when I discovered those Georgia Guidestones... In positive way.
Actually this monument is an evidence of humankind stupidity. Despite of all the wisdom it declares everybody hates it... Why?
Because it tells truths that are not convenient with the lazy mind of the modern human being.
It's hard to miss how in the name of "loving gods" humanity exterminates itself and everything around.
There is the problem. People always chose to obey their masters instead of thinking independently.
As long as we believe in authorities we will remain slaves.
All around the world nations abolish differerent kind of authorities... just to enslave themselves under another authority.
It happens all the time.
They call it democracy. I call it bullshit.
As Noam Chomsky says, there will be no other "-ism" that will develop our decaying society.
People have to think indepedently, but not egoistic or egocentric. Human being has to develop mentally to the world of possibilities he created.
As George Clinton said "Free your mind and your ass will follow"!
We should be afraid of our laziness and stupidity - not governments or corporations!
Amen.
"Machines are the weapon employed by the capitalists to quell the revolt of specialized labor" Karl Marx

stringtapper
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by stringtapper » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:54 pm

Goddard wrote:I was really astonished when I discovered those Georgia Guidestones... In positive way.
Actually this monument is an evidence of humankind stupidity. Despite of all the wisdom it declares everybody hates it... Why?
Because it tells truths that are not convenient with the lazy mind of the modern human being.
It's hard to miss how in the name of "loving gods" humanity exterminates itself and everything around.
There is the problem. People always chose to obey their masters instead of thinking independently.
As long as we believe in authorities we will remain slaves.
All around the world nations abolish differerent kind of authorities... just to enslave themselves under another authority.
It happens all the time.
They call it democracy. I call it bullshit.
As Noam Chomsky says, there will be no other "-ism" that will develop our decaying society.
People have to think indepedently, but not egoistic or egocentric. Human being has to develop mentally to the world of possibilities he created.
As George Clinton said "Free your mind and your ass will follow"!
We should be afraid of our laziness and stupidity - not governments or corporations!
Amen.
For once we're almost in total agreement. Of course I have no faith that any of what you say will ever change though, and so I'm reminded of a different song lyric:

"Burn baby burn!"

:twisted:
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juniorsfave
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by juniorsfave » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:38 pm

If you were to ask me, I would say that I am more afraid of the government. Corporations are always under the government and whatever they do they will always find themselves being bracketed by government policies and laws. The government on the other hand enjoys freedom from persecution due to internal connections.

starving student
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by starving student » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:46 am

people who hate tend to live longer than those that don't, so if I was to pretend to be afraid of something it would be them but I can't fake it cause they're just so damn tasty. :twisted:

starving student
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Re: Who are you more afraid of, the government or corporations?

Post by starving student » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:16 am

^^that's how i feel about it. sure the gov sets policy but there are others outside of the gov runnin that shit

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