Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production

earthloop
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:58 pm

Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by earthloop » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:02 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:
earthloop wrote: 'primitive'


I would tend to agree if not for the fact that we primitives invented THIS:

Image



But please. Continue the anti-America rant. It's FASCINATING.

:lol:
Hehe, but it wouldn't be as much fun to use without WiFi...something WE Aussies invented :wink:

Apart from that one-upmanship issue, I was at pains to emphasize that I was not referring to ALL Americans as primitives. Not even you...oh, unless you vote Republican and carry a gun,that is. :P


:x

Vivo
Posts: 311
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by Vivo » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:05 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:The further irony is that an out of control government WOULD probably come out of the Republican side and that all you hippies out there are the ones that would have to save America.

O
M
F
G

:lol:
I'm a lefty and I'm pro 2nd amendment BTW but your right LOL.

It reminds me of the best South Park episode ever. "I'm a Little Bit Country"

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-ep ... it-country

It's a MUST SEE, it's spot on. The fact is we both need each other. I won't say more just see it.

Vivo
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by Vivo » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:15 pm

simmerdown wrote:since the CT massacre gun show sales have skyrocketed, especially on the types of assault rifles and high capacity clips that were used, specifically those, even the distributors are sold out and have never seen the like
People are afraid that politicians will make a rash decision on gun control and/or the 2 amendment itself. I don't blame them.

One of the biggest Fups during all this has been the NRA spokesman.
With the whole world watching and waiting for your statement over the massacre
You don't mention Big Pharma as the real ***CAUSE*** of this tragedy, instead your solution is armed guards at schools. facepalm emoticon

ian_halsall
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by ian_halsall » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:03 pm

SNAFU

Vivo
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by Vivo » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:33 pm

That. was. AWESOME!

Thanks for that Jimmy, enough said. There's lots of beautiful things to focus on!

Forge.
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by Forge. » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:54 pm

..

Sage
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by Sage » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:53 pm

Why do these "debates" have to descend into pathetic "right" & "left" bollocks? There's no such thing as either and anyone using such terms isn't smart enough to engage in such a debate.

cmcpress
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by cmcpress » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:58 pm

Sage wrote:Why do these "debates" have to descend into pathetic "right" & "left" bollocks? There's no such thing as either and anyone using such terms isn't smart enough to engage in such a debate.
*ahem*

well actually there is. The distinction is simple, but it really does cut across the board.

The right believe in the individual, personal freedom, often conservative values (marriage, religion, nationalism and so on) and a small state with the minimum of tax.

The left believe in the social order, sublimating your own individual desires for the good of the many and a large state with social provision and thus a larger tax burden (but they don't like to talk about that).

The public frequently want what's best for them - ie a small tax bill with the best quality social provision (bin collections, waste disposal, running water, edumacation, opportunities for their children, police, fire, military) and so on but quite often don't like the idea of paying for it.

At either of the extremes is a form of madness completely incompatible with human nature, and both extremes offer a form of warped view of humanity inconsistent with their own ideology (the rights obsession with law and order for example - conveniently forgetting that police are essentially a leftist social construct, hell even the concept of property rights conflicts with their desire to own stuff).

the reason that these debates descend into looney lefty vs nazi scumbag namecalling is because both sides are so entrenched in their own dichotomous worldviews that they can't for a second realise that maybe they're both in the wrong.

Machinesworking
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:08 pm

cmcpress wrote: At either of the extremes is a form of madness completely incompatible with human nature, and both extremes offer a form of warped view of humanity inconsistent with their own ideology (the rights obsession with law and order for example - conveniently forgetting that police are essentially a leftist social construct, hell even the concept of property rights conflicts with their desire to own stuff).

the reason that these debates descend into looney lefty vs nazi scumbag namecalling is because both sides are so entrenched in their own dichotomous worldviews that they can't for a second realise that maybe they're both in the wrong.
Some of it has to do with the simple fact that terms are all over the board.
First of all conservative values are all about a strong police force.
Although a true 'right wing' approach would be to have privately funded police.
Conservatism and right wing politics have been in bed for centuries now, to the point to where there's not much of a difference.

True left wing thinking eschews the concept of a strong centralized government, but socialism in general has asked for 'protection' from random elements, which has led to the left essentially holding the same opinion as the conservatives have.

So you have cohesion with the democrats and republicans in the USA on big budgets for the armed forces and police force, but arguments about public works, education etc.

Essentially the police have never been a leftist social construct, it's an authoritarian one, which has been historically a conservative value, and it's only been fairly recently that conservative values have included a small centralized government, although they have always been for a small tax burden. Or to put it another way, Left and Right isn't a good replacement for conservative and liberal, as they have in past anyway been different concepts. You can be a conservative left wing person (Democrat) , or a liberal right wing person (Libertarian).

beatmunga
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by beatmunga » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:05 am

Yes, there is a lot of confusion between the role of personal freedom vs how the economy functions.

This simple test will plot your views of both on a simple Kaoss Pad of politics. A bit of fun.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Chances are, 9 out of 10 on this site will end up mildly left wing and libertarian...
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

crumhorn
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by crumhorn » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:33 am

beatmunga wrote:Yes, there is a lot of confusion between the role of personal freedom vs how the economy functions.

This simple test will plot your views of both on a simple Kaoss Pad of politics. A bit of fun.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Chances are, 9 out of 10 on this site will end up mildly left wing and libertarian...
The wording of the questions on these tests drives me nuts. eg. I had to answer "agree" to women home-building in favor of career because I'd say exactly the same thing if the question was about men.

apparently I'm 2.5% communist and 49.7% anarchist.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

regretfullySaid
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by regretfullySaid » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:29 pm

Interesting test. This is where I was put:
Image
ImageImage

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:16 pm

Sorry it took so long to respond, lost track and all....
beatmunga wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:Aggressive narcissism at it's finest.
But you don't have any faith in Hare's checklist, do you? So why use it in attack? Seems a bit hypocritical.

Because Hare did not invent the term aggressive narcissism. He owns no rights to the term, and he certainly wasn't the first person to put the two words together.
This is what I would call 'rabbit hole' debating. We're now not talking about the subject but semantics. I'm not saying you're intentionally doing it, but it can seem that way.

Machinesworking wrote:"I do not agree with someone, therefore their opinion doesn't matter."
It's not that it doesn't matter at all. It matters to you, obviously. I actually find your opinions matter a lot - I find them quite worrying. As you do mine. That is our prerogative.
of course, but like you stated you've decided to 'take the piss' which basically means you decided that they hold no value, which I have not done the same to your opinion, simply because I do not know you enough to do so. I tend to be interested in the opinion of others. I do not hold grudges about this stuff, unless you're a militaristic simpleton who glorifies violence. <--didn't say you were, just pointing out exceptions.

[
Machinesworking wrote:Again there is an overwhelming majority of the psychiatric community that believes nurture is far more of a shaper of complex emotional states like empathy.
Plus the simple fact is genetic based research into things like an individuals emotional and intellectual capacity has consistently led to all kinds of abuse by authoritarian systems for thousands of years now. with that in mind any research into genetic based psychiatric abnormalities should be rigorously vetted scientifically before being presented as 'fact'. Your studies have not been, period.
You are still confusing the 'psychopath/empathy' thing. Not all lack of empathy is due to psychopathy. No-one has ever stated that. It's just that psychopaths don't tend to have any empathy. That is a big factor in their behavioural traits. If you refute this, and have evidence of empathy in clinical psychopaths, I'd be interested in any research, books, studies, whatever, to back up your 'facts'?

(I love the way you stated that nothing can be accepted as fact, as an ireffutible fact, by the way)
Not sure how you got that? Read through what I wrote again I guess? I said you shouldn't state things as facts that are not vetted and accepted as facts.

Since you know a bit about psychology, you would know that the area we are discussing, nature VS nurture is the most controversial area there is. All we have as laymen is the community of psychiatry as a whole to look at for "facts". So, with that in mind, we have almost 100% collusion on nurture. They all believe that a child could be raised to be a killer or a saint depending on conditioning. There is however still debate about terms, like "clinical psychopath" most psychiatrists and psychologists agree that the term is a useful way of describing behavior patterns and some, not all, believe that it's a genetic trait. That, again is what I'm getting at, that it still has not been proven than psychopaths are born that way, but you have stated it like it was fact.



Machinesworking wrote:"I've dealt with probably more dangerous violent criminals and the wreckage a damaged individual like that can leave behind than I'm almost 100% sure any of you have"
Actually, I'm lying about all due respect - statements like that, and many others of yours I've read, make it hard for me to respect your views. Got to be honest.

The medium is really getting in the way of the message again.
Yawn, I cut out most of the ad hominem stuff, because frankly it's boring and leads nowhere. You don't know me, and you made this personal attack about how I was talking about this without meeting any of your bogyman in real life. Let's put this in context shall we?
beatmunga wrote: We still don't really know what you think about psychopaths MW, or whether or not they are worth worrying about at all.

Your insistence on undermining my view makes me suspect you think not.

I just hope you never have to deal with one. Even the non- violent ones are scary.
I don't generally like bringing up my personal life, but like a lot of people in this world I've know people that were murdered.
I would say that the killer was a psychopath, but my revulsion at him for his actions does not make me think he was born that way.
Of course I want him locked up forever, fact! :wink:
You brought that out, and now you're trying to use it as another personal attack. It's rabbit hole logic, it has no place in this debate really. I'm sorry I got carried into it as well... personal attacks are one of the dumbest thing the interrwebs has brought out in people.

I'm going to also ask you to maybe look at your own opinions on this and recognize that you might be going down a dark path yourself with your thinking. I will do the same of course, but I'm curious? what dark path do you see lies ahead if we don't rush into conclusions and approach genetic studies of behavior patterns with caution?

You asked for books. A great place to start would be For Your Own Good by Alice Miller.
Probably my favorite by her.
It's pretty much all about how to create a psychopath or addict or anybody mentally ill really.
Last edited by Machinesworking on Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Machinesworking
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Re: Gun control? We need medication control!!!!!

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:19 pm

shadx312 wrote:Interesting test. This is where I was put:
Image
I'm at almost exactly the same place on that test. Probably a pretty popular spot for artists and musicians etc.

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