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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:29 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12591
Forge. wrote:
Angstrom wrote:
I'm pretty sure that a person in their 40s is better at anticipating their future behaviour than a person in their teens, or 20s.
I've seen a lot of scenes come and go, so I'm pretty fine when a scene starts to wane. However some of my younger friends flap like drowning men as their first love starts to go under. It's interesting to see, and hard to tell them " dude, let it go" .


did you see that fairly recent "lawyer's cut" Monty Python doco? A couple of them were making the slightly depressing comment about how as you get older things get more predictable and you also laugh less because you've heard all the jokes before...

I definitely agree it's more of a younger thing to be bad at predicting things... I guess you get more existential as you get older because you see the triviality in a lot of things and reshape your plans from wild and ambitious to mild and realistic.

I am frequently amazed to realise how many of the big musicians I used to listen to were in their 20s when they did some of their best work. I feel like I was just a kid without a clue in my 20s.. the beatles were mostly 30 or under by the time they split.

Ian Curtis was dead at 23!! 8O

I think certain art forms and styles suit a younger person. Anything involving extreme flamboyance, aggression, exuberance . There's a type and level of energy and passion that comes out of youth that has been embodied by the art forms of the mid 20th century until now. The art of youth has been raised up as something so great as to encompass ALL permissible art. Meanwhile the type of art a person over 30 might make is Lame-o-daddio . Square!
So, in the absence of a clue, or artistic guts, we see pensioners singing teenage rebellion songs for the dollars ("hope I die before I get old") rather than be artistically true to themselves and their true age, and write something relevant, or just quit it if they can't write true.

But a lot of that Ian Curtis 1st world problems moaning / or Jimi Hendrix space spunking stuff is really only good if you are the same age and discovering those passionate feelings for the first time. Wow, this song about a sexy space elf is really in tune with my-first-bong-rip. Because at 18 our dopamine receptors are really succeptible to strong passions at that age, but they will latch onto pretty much anything with a scanty shred of personal relevance or "meaning" and declaim it's unique brilliance.

That doesn't mean that the more complex feelings which you discover later in life are less good, or less interesting to evoke through art. The myriad complex thoughts available when you can gain perspective are MORE interesting, and MORE varied than " I'm a lonely pale white boy" and " I'm a sex machine" and " I want to dance now".
But most people are blind to the wider possibilities, because popular media is predicated on the spending power of the 18-30 demographic. TV, Films, magazines, adverts. Youth culture is IT. You've got to be now!

Look outside of the last 50 years of commercial western popular culture (youth culture) - humans have been expressing themselves well for thousands of years and there's no age restrictions. Here a wide range of modes of expression, and art.


Don't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree

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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:51 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
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Location: Earth
Angstrom wrote:
.. we see pensioners singing teenage rebellion songs for the dollars ("hope I die before I get old")


I just went to the shops and one of the big supermarkets here "Coles" hired Status Quo to rehash their song as "down down prices are down" - it has been universally panned for good reason, but I was thinking as I was driving away with it stuck in my head that if I was their age I'd definitely be more interested in what they would have been paid for that than any kind of 'artistic integrity'... I think they followed it up with a tour so I don't think it even harmed them any, because all their fans are their age too and know how it works and would probably feel the same.

Quote:
...
Look outside of the last 50 years of commercial western popular culture (youth culture) - humans have been expressing themselves well for thousands of years and there's no age restrictions. Here a wide range of modes of expression, and art.


one of the most recent albums I've bought was Seasick steve - he spent his whole life as a hobo busking and got signed to Jack White's label at the age of 70.. been on Jools Holland etc... I saw him at Byron Bay bluesfest before the Pogues. I've been telling that story everywhere since, you've probably already heard it, but I was pretty inspired by it... I think things are changing.. of course blues is already a scene that is full of older people, but I think part of what got him successful in Europe ( and then the US later ironically) was a lot of younger people getting on board too... although by younger I probably mean at least 30.. compared to the rest of the blues crowd it's young!


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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:55 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12591
Forge. wrote:
one of the most recent albums I've bought was Seasick steve - he spent his whole life as a hobo busking and got signed to Jack White's label at the age of 70.. been on Jools Holland etc... I saw him at Byron Bay bluesfest before the Pogues. I've been telling that story everywhere since, you've probably already heard it, but I was pretty inspired by it... !


Ummmm

Ok. Lemme ask you a question. Would you prefer to keep that idea of seasick Steve you have, or would you be able to handle it if the truth was slightly different. I ask this because a friend was a big fan of his and I happened to mention something about Steve which kinda ruined his enjoyment of the artist. In a way it might have been better if I left him believing in this blues Santa claus. If you enjoy the idea you have of him then that's fine.

So say now " I prefer the idea of Steve I have, I enjoy it"
Or
" I would prefer to know the truth, even if it ruins my idea of the vagabond hobo picked up by jack white"

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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:01 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
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Location: Earth
shit you're not going to tell me he's a paedo or something are you?

Oh well, I haven't listened to him in months actually..


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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:11 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12591
No.
Steve wold owned and ran a recording studio in Europe for many years during the 1980's, then he moved back to Seatle in the late 1980s where he set up a recording studio (Moon Music) which is where he recorded and produced a load of albums including a couple for Modest Mouse among others. As the Seatle scene wound up he closed up his studio and around y2k ish he decided he s going to move over to England and try his hand at a change of career direction.
He is not a "hobo", he has not exactly "lived on the road for years" and if he s discovered by Jack White it was probably while White was booking a session in his studio. Or they we both on the same bill (wold has played festivals for years along with recording and producing)

Here is an interview with him before he became "hobo-ized", from '99
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/relu ... t?oid=6010

However, the modern media requires that we all have "a story", and so this is now his. That's fine, he seems like a nice guy and I guess he just went along with what the record company told him to play up on. I mean, why not. Anything for an easy life. And people sure do love that story of his, it's romantic!
A brief stint in his youth riding the rails turned into ... Super Hobo Blues Man!

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Last edited by Angstrom on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:18 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 5581
Location: Earth
oh that's ok.. to be honest it's the 70 years old bit that most impresses me anyway... I don't really mind what he did before hand, that bit just made the story better..

he's probably more concerned with the possibility that after finally getting famous he might suddenly drop dead...


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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 4336
Location: la
Angstrom wrote:
Yep, but I think "the end of history illusion" wanes as you get older.
Simply seeing how much you and your friends have changed makes you think "I'll probably be completely different in future too"

Or at least - I think that about myself. I have no idea what I will be like in ten years time, if I am even around then. But when I was 20 years old I was pretty convinced my tastes and lifestyle would remain the same forever. I think that " the end of history illusion" wanes with age and experience. Unless you count the thought : I know I won't stay the same because I never have.

"49 UP" It's f'in fantastic. Ya might need to rent since full doc not on the Utube. I've watched since 28 UP. 56 coming soon.

trailer; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcrTX6x_qpw


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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 2887
If the question is, if I today still like the stuff the way it was ca. 10 years ago:
Yes I would definitely still go to see Sonic Youth, Tool and Fat Boy Slim

If we consider that they have changed:
Yes I would definitely still go to see Sonic Youth, Tool and Fat Boy Slim
8)

But maybe I just always had good taste in music :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 2887
Angstrom wrote:
Forge. wrote:
Angstrom wrote:
I'm pretty sure that a person in their 40s is better at anticipating their future behaviour than a person in their teens, or 20s.
I've seen a lot of scenes come and go, so I'm pretty fine when a scene starts to wane. However some of my younger friends flap like drowning men as their first love starts to go under. It's interesting to see, and hard to tell them " dude, let it go" .


did you see that fairly recent "lawyer's cut" Monty Python doco? A couple of them were making the slightly depressing comment about how as you get older things get more predictable and you also laugh less because you've heard all the jokes before...

I definitely agree it's more of a younger thing to be bad at predicting things... I guess you get more existential as you get older because you see the triviality in a lot of things and reshape your plans from wild and ambitious to mild and realistic.

I am frequently amazed to realise how many of the big musicians I used to listen to were in their 20s when they did some of their best work. I feel like I was just a kid without a clue in my 20s.. the beatles were mostly 30 or under by the time they split.

Ian Curtis was dead at 23!! 8O

I think certain art forms and styles suit a younger person. Anything involving extreme flamboyance, aggression, exuberance . There's a type and level of energy and passion that comes out of youth that has been embodied by the art forms of the mid 20th century until now. The art of youth has been raised up as something so great as to encompass ALL permissible art. Meanwhile the type of art a person over 30 might make is Lame-o-daddio . Square!
So, in the absence of a clue, or artistic guts, we see pensioners singing teenage rebellion songs for the dollars ("hope I die before I get old") rather than be artistically true to themselves and their true age, and write something relevant, or just quit it if they can't write true.

But a lot of that Ian Curtis 1st world problems moaning / or Jimi Hendrix space spunking stuff is really only good if you are the same age and discovering those passionate feelings for the first time. Wow, this song about a sexy space elf is really in tune with my-first-bong-rip. Because at 18 our dopamine receptors are really succeptible to strong passions at that age, but they will latch onto pretty much anything with a scanty shred of personal relevance or "meaning" and declaim it's unique brilliance.

That doesn't mean that the more complex feelings which you discover later in life are less good, or less interesting to evoke through art. The myriad complex thoughts available when you can gain perspective are MORE interesting, and MORE varied than " I'm a lonely pale white boy" and " I'm a sex machine" and " I want to dance now".
But most people are blind to the wider possibilities, because popular media is predicated on the spending power of the 18-30 demographic. TV, Films, magazines, adverts. Youth culture is IT. You've got to be now!

Look outside of the last 50 years of commercial western popular culture (youth culture) - humans have been expressing themselves well for thousands of years and there's no age restrictions. Here a wide range of modes of expression, and art.


Don't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree


I just quoted you, because of: Truth... :)

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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 5581
Location: Earth
TomViolenz wrote:
If the question is, if I today still like the stuff the way it was ca. 10 years ago:
Yes I would definitely still go to see Sonic Youth, Tool and Fat Boy Slim
:


hate to point it out, but try 20 years! ;-) 8O


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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:29 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 2887
Forge. wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
If the question is, if I today still like the stuff the way it was ca. 10 years ago:
Yes I would definitely still go to see Sonic Youth, Tool and Fat Boy Slim
:


hate to point it out, but try 20 years! ;-) 8O


which would actually make my point even more :)

But I'm pretty certain that it was less than 10 years ago that I saw Sonic Youth and Tool and it was 13 years ago that I saw FatBoySlim (I did say ca. 10 years)
Ah...good times... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm
Posts: 19387
Location: San Jose, CA
I went searching for some new tracks based on liking tracks by a certain electronica producer/artist. In all cases I found very few tracks. Most just release 3 or 4 tracks a year and maybe the same amount of remixes of another artist. I think that’s quite common now. How are you supposed to get emotionally attached to an artist with that kind of disjointed release rate? These artists can get wedged into festivals with no problem, but I don’t see them doing successful headlining tours at large venues for many years.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 5581
Location: Earth
beats me wrote:
I went searching for some new tracks based on liking tracks by a certain electronica producer/artist. In all cases I found very few tracks. Most just release 3 or 4 tracks a year and maybe the same amount of remixes of another artist. I think that’s quite common now. How are you supposed to get emotionally attached to an artist with that kind of disjointed release rate? These artists can get wedged into festivals with no problem, but I don’t see them doing successful headlining tours at large venues for many years.


probably because the only way to make any money is doing the gigs


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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 13005
Location: The Wild West
10 years ago i predicted that i would be posting this.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans bad at predicting their future
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 5445
Location: Maryland USA
Angstrom wrote:
Yep, but I think "the end of history illusion" wanes as you get older.
Simply seeing how much you and your friends have changed makes you think "I'll probably be completely different in future too"

Or at least - I think that about myself. I have no idea what I will be like in ten years time, if I am even around then. But when I was 20 years old I was pretty convinced my tastes and lifestyle would remain the same forever. I think that " the end of history illusion" wanes with age and experience. Unless you count the thought : I know I won't stay the same because I never have.


"... he writes as he adjusts his leather cyberhelmet, the sun dimly glowing off an old Arzach poster over his desk... :D

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