Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
SuburbanThug
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by SuburbanThug » Thu May 23, 2013 6:27 pm

Emissary wrote: It has been proven over and over that the collective are painfully dangerous and open to manipulation.
Duuuhhhrrr, well Ok Mr. Emissary, since you say so.

This is hilarious. An Argument By the Masses fallacy used to trash the ability of the masses to rule! That's so meta Emissary. I think you just flipped our dimension inside out. So many fallacious arguments on this thread it's an embarrassment to humanity. Thanks for the flame war, assholes. Thankfully most of these mults stick to the Lounge.

re:dream
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by re:dream » Thu May 23, 2013 6:29 pm

It's been kind of nice watching this thread just grow and grow and grow. I don't have read any of the posts. I can just watch the page count grow.

It kinda reminds me like those frames in the Asterix and Obelix comics (am I showing my age?) when the narrators wanted to show that a punch-up was in progress. The would sort of pan back the frame to a distant view (e.g. of a Roman Palace, or whatnot). You would not see any of the action; just a Roman helmet or a sanda (and the occasional Roman Soldier) flying through the air.

Anyway.If I come across as a smug cunt, I probably are one. I have my own ways of passing time unproductively, so far be it from me to cast the first stone.

Machinesworking
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by Machinesworking » Thu May 23, 2013 6:38 pm

SuburbanThug wrote:
Emissary wrote: It has been proven over and over that the collective are painfully dangerous and open to manipulation.
Duuuhhhrrr, well Ok Mr. Emissary, since you say so.

This is hilarious. An Argument By the Masses fallacy used to trash the ability of the masses to rule! That's so meta Emissary. I think you just flipped our dimension inside out. So many fallacious arguments on this thread it's an embarrassment to humanity. Thanks for the flame war, assholes. Thankfully most of these mults stick to the Lounge.
Emissary used to be our #1 conspiracy theory guy around these parts. Sort of a left wing Alex Jones, if that helps put it into perspective.

Emissary
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by Emissary » Thu May 23, 2013 10:43 pm

Ok furter you win. see ya

Vivo
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by Vivo » Fri May 24, 2013 5:20 am

myrnova wrote:
shadx312 wrote:Thanks for ruining another thread and injecting it with your infantile realization, Myrnova. Asshole.

Can't you just take your "life's a bitch' attitude where other people will enjoy it, like depression forums or something?
(1) you are very rude, you should be banned for this; (2) this forum is not yours, nor this thread: if you don't like my posts and "infantile realizations", there is no need to react in such an aggressive and violent trolling and flaming manner, just ignore them, because (3) in a so-called "democracy" everyone has the right to enter a discussion, whether you like it or not; (4) it is not my fault if CAPITALISM+WAR+CRIMES = USA, so get a grip, thanks. 8)
This article may shed some light on the behavior in this thread myrnova.

Is the United States of America a Sociopathic Country?

http://beforeitsnews.com/african-americ ... 46932.html

Apple and Corporate America's Sociopathic Behavior

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/curtis-el ... 19615.html

Image

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/05 ... pple-taxes

SuburbanThug
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by SuburbanThug » Fri May 24, 2013 6:17 am

Apple's tax avoidance is nothing compared to General Electric. That won't be making front page anytime soon though...

"I've never seen anything like this and we don't know anybody who has ever seen anything like this," Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.)

:lol:
Okay, Senator Levin... Guess you haven't bothered looking.

Bean Machine
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by Bean Machine » Fri May 24, 2013 11:20 am

Funk N. Furter wrote: The Nazis rounded up the workers leaders a. to get rid of opposition, and b. because it was what they promised to do on behalf of the capitalists, so they could pay the workers less etc. and c. because they hated socialists even more then they hated Jews. It was fuck all to do with the sectarian tensions in Northern Ireland.
And what relevance does any of this have to do with the point at hand? You claimed that the Nazis and Communists had to be polar opposites owing purely to the fact that they fought each other tooth and nail. I provided a couple of counterexamples that refute this point (and suggest that the strongest rivalries exist between ideological siblings, not opposites), and now you scramble around desperately trying to change the subject in order to avoiding admitting that you were wrong. Wassup wif dat, foo'?
Well, the Mensheviks tried to sabotage the Bolsheviks plans, fought against them, and tried to sabotage the peace deal with Germany, as far as I know. They were not banned until 1921. It was their sabotage which caused any retaliation. Even in 1921 they were allowed to organise demonstrations at Plekhanov's funeral. The Mensheviks welcomed British troops on Russian soil. The British of course wanted to help overthrow the Bolsheviks. In fact the Mensheviks were in talks with the British very early on.
Again, irrelevant. So what?
Look, I don't really 'do' ridiculous debates like the one you're trying to engage me in. It's like debating whether Santa Claus exists. The 25 point program was written in Feb 1920, 13 years before the Nazis took power and one year after a failed revolution.


So what?
At the time the NSDAP party was tiny. Hitler had just helped crush the 1919 revolution by acting as a snitch. Wikipedia says that in Mein Kampf Hitler calls it the “the so-called program of the movement”. You can read it free online so feel free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zQ9bu0ASZI
"The historian Henry A. Turner proposes that many of the Program’s policies for economic reform, pro-labour legislation, and popular democratic politics, contradicted Adolf Hitler’s basis of his dictatorial ambition. That the land reform and anti-trust legislation especially threatened the financial interests of the businessmen whom Hitler courted for political campaign money.[9] Because he could not safely discard the National Socialist Program of the Nazi Party — without provoking voter mutinies — Adolf Hitler, by force of personality, definitively closed all such ideologic discussion.[10]"
"Coulda, woulda, shoulda." Way to duck the question, nitwit. I ask again: how many of the 25 planks of the NSDAP platform could legitimately be described as right-wing?
As I said in 1927 he wrote to industrialists telling them not to worry. After Hitler took power in 1933 the Nazis finished off the socialists, putting them in concentration camps or killing them. Big business loved it, and American investment poured in to Nazi Germany. General Motors, IBM, Ford, Standard Oil and loads of other companies helped Hitler build his war machine.
Oh, not this tedious argument again. Didn't Jack McOck already set you straight on this? For the umpteenth time, corporatism != laissez-faire capitalism and as such, the two should never be conflated. Not that I'd expect anything less from someone who lumps both Misean libertarianism and Hilter's National Socialism together on the same end of the political spectrum, mind you.

Bean Machine
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by Bean Machine » Fri May 24, 2013 11:25 am

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Emissary wrote: made up by an intellectualist bookish middle class prophet, and the more you realise there is no logical argument to what you are stating the more you will use obfuscation and quotes from your prophet to prove a point. How do you expect to win an argument without any kind of axiomatic logic path?

I will ask the question again.
Do you believe that the initiation or threat of force is immoral?
I will answer you for the third time. If someone tries to kill me I will fight back in self defence. Wouldn't you?
Er, no. You haven't answered him "for the third time." You haven't answered him at all.

Here's the question: Do you believe that the initiation or threat of force is immoral? Any answer isn't of the yes/no variety (implied or otherwise) is simply unacceptable.

And while we're at it, how's about answering my previous (related) question:
Bean Machine wrote:Suppose that a nation decided to go socialist (in the so-called "anarchist" sense of the term which you believe to be the correct definition)... One isolated town within said nation however, decides it wants no part in the upcoming workers' paradise, and decides to remain a separate entity that then adopts the anarchocapitalist model of social organization.

Would the individuals living in this town be allowed to hold on to their property, whether it be things like toothbrushes, cars, stereo equipment, houses, land, factories, industrial machinery, farm equipment etc?

Or would the socialist masses surrounding the town be justified in seizing whatever they decided was necessary to further their own socialist utopia?

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by LoopStationZebra » Fri May 24, 2013 12:58 pm


This is as good example as any to illustrate why The Left are a bunch of fucking morons.



:lol:
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Jack McOck
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by Jack McOck » Fri May 24, 2013 1:04 pm

Companies that people are willingly giving (a shit load of) their money to are being harassed by a state from which people would like to withhold every cent. And this is supposed to be seen as a good thing?

Go Apple, go!

Image
Last edited by Jack McOck on Fri May 24, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

myrnova
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by myrnova » Fri May 24, 2013 1:05 pm

Vivo wrote:Is the United States of America a Sociopathic Country?

http://beforeitsnews.com/african-americ ... 46932.html

Apple and Corporate America's Sociopathic Behavior

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/curtis-el ... 19615.html

Image

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/05 ... pple-taxes
I don't know whether the USA is socipathic or not. But I know for sure that the global financial crisis started "thanks" to the USA capitalism (see "collapse of Lehman Brothers", 2008). The real crime is capitalism. These kind of global crisis lean to war, usually. As I wrote: "CAPITALISM+WAR+CRIMES = USA".

P.S. see what's happening nowadays in Sweden, thanks to this horrible USA model: one of the best social states in the world now in danger because of liberist policies. Results: poverty, riots, violence.

Jack McOck
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by Jack McOck » Fri May 24, 2013 1:11 pm

myrnova wrote:see what's happening nowadays in Sweden, thanks to this horrible USA model: one of the best social states in the world now in danger because of liberist policies. Results: poverty, riots, violence.
Explain how capitalism caused the current riots... OR post some random pictures that illustrate your confused rage. Because you know you can.

myrnova
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by myrnova » Fri May 24, 2013 1:19 pm

Jack McOck wrote:
myrnova wrote:see what's happening nowadays in Sweden, thanks to this horrible USA model: one of the best social states in the world now in danger because of liberist policies. Results: poverty, riots, violence.
Explain how capitalism caused the current riots... OR post some random pictures that illustrate your confused rage. Because you know you can.
Everyone knows Sweden was a social model. Last right-wing governments introduced those capitalistic "liberist" policies, restricting social rights, introducing a sort of USA "competition" model. Results: poverty, poor suburbia riots, racist extreem right more popular than ever, violence.

Jack McOck
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by Jack McOck » Fri May 24, 2013 1:32 pm

myrnova wrote:Everyone knows Sweden was a social model. Last right-wing governments introduced those capitalistic "liberist" policies, restricting social rights, introducing a sort of USA "competition" model. Results: poverty, poor suburbia riots, racist extreem right more popular than ever, violence.
Interesting. And which policies were those?

myrnova
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Re: Socialism will save us all (technology edition)

Post by myrnova » Fri May 24, 2013 1:36 pm

They call it "social-liberism" (see Tony Blair): they say "we are leftish", but at the end of the story it is rightish moderate capitalism, introducing social inequalities and poverty.

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