Ableton Forum

That looks about right.

Bean Machine wrote:

I adore that record, especially Bang Your Head:

Mother---- this, motherf--- that!

Well I hope this tax evasion in the news thing isn't just a flash in the pan. We have no business wondering why we're 17 trillion in debt over here. General Electric hasn't paid taxes since 2005! I guess that's how corporations repay the public that built their entire infrastructure before privatization. Smells like some of that nasty socialism to me!

SuburbanThug wrote:Well I hope this tax evasion in the news thing isn't just a flash in the pan. We have no business wondering why we're 17 trillion in debt over here. General Electric hasn't paid taxes since 2005! I guess that's how corporations repay the public that built their entire infrastructure before privatization. Smells like some of that nasty socialism to me!

I worked at a company for 6 years that was owned by GE. Other than tax avoidance they are also top tier at laying people off by the tens of thousands annually. They have an entire division (GE Restructuring) with the sole purpose of liquidating any companies they feel isn’t fitting GE’s vision of the moment. If your company gets moved under the GE Restructuring umbrella you know your days are numbered.

The Koch brothers have a 30 foot high pile of petroleum coke spanning an entire city block sitting on the edge of the Detroit River right now. That's what right-wing libertarianism looks like. The liberty to pollute every one else's water supply and say, "Suck it," because you have the money and they don't.

Funk N. Furter wrote:

Jack McOck wrote:

myrnova wrote:Everyone knows Sweden was a social model. Last right-wing governments introduced those capitalistic "liberist" policies, restricting social rights, introducing a sort of USA "competition" model. Results: poverty, poor suburbia riots, racist extreem right more popular than ever, violence.

Interesting. And which policies were those?

Myrnova is correct

Which is why she could back up her comments with facts.

Captain Chuckles (aka Funk N. Furter) wrote: This is stupid. Of course you would fight in self defence. Of course there are circumstances where you would see the use of force as moral. If you saw a bad guy trying to kidnap a child, you would try to stop him with force and that would be the right thing to do. If you did not, you would be in the wrong.

Oh, FFS. The question said, "the initiation of force", you semi-literate moron. Self-defense, or stopping a bad guy from kidnapping a child is not an initiation of force, but rather a reaction to someone else who has initiated it.

Serious question: can you count to 10 without using your fingers?

Funk N. Furter wrote:

Bean Machine wrote:

Funk N. Furter wrote:Not even right wing conservatives have any time for nonsense like that.

Demonstrably false:

http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-A ... al+fascism

One discredited book by a lone crackpot does not change anything.

Other than your incorrect assertion that no right-wing conservatives consider fascism to be left-wing.

I have already seen this nonsense.

But not read it, clearly.

Funk N. Furter wrote:Serious answer. This is what I've been saying all along, but it goes in one ear and out the other. I said a socialist government would act in defence of the revolution. The force being initiated by the capitalists. There would be no need for a socialist government to initiate force. I said this from the frigging start, about 6 times now.

No, you keep switching your words up to try and make some of the more slow-witted members of the forum think you've answered the question, when in fact you haven't.

So... let's take it from the top: Do you believe that the initiation or threat of force is immoral?

And you can stop trying to blame everything on capitalism. Force is exclusively initiated by capitalists? That schtick is beyond laughable.

Funk N. Furter wrote:

Jack McOck wrote:

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Myrnova is correct

Which is why she could back up her comments with facts.

read this
http://www.socialistworld.net/view/62

I challenge you to read the first article and see if you can find one line you can pick holes in.

So you agree she never answered me? I'll read your article if you answer this honestly.

Jack McOck wrote: So you agree she never answered me? I'll read your article if you answer this honestly.

Wait, so Myrnova is a chick? Suddenly things are making a lot more sense...

Funk N. Furter wrote: They are polar opposites because they have completely opposite views and policies. The fact that the Nazis rounded up the socialists is just a piece of evidence that is easy to grasp. On it's own, no it's not complete proof, I didn't intend it to be.

Not true, as a cursory glance at the National Socialist platform will confirm. And no, that's not evidence, as I have already demonstrated. If it's evidence of anything, it's most likely that the Nazis and Communists were bitter rivals who fought each other over the loyalties of street thugs who tend to gravitate towards violent political movements.

The aim of socialism is the abolition of private property and classes.

A blatant impossibility, in other words. You can't abolish private property. It will always exist in some form (as anyone who's read Hoppe's "A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism" will know.)

Fascists are the opposite. They are extreme nationalists as opposed to internationalists which is what socialists are. They do not want to abolish private property and the class structure. They do not want to abolish government - quite the opposite is true.

Because the Fascists, unlike the commies, at least had the foresight to recognize some of the fundamental problems with orthodox socialist theory, and modified it accordingly.

And I said it was written 13 years earlier, just after the 1919 revolution, and Hitler tried to distance himself from it.

And as I said, so what? Why is this remotely relevant? Now answer the question: how many of the 25 planks of the NSDAP can be considered right-wing?

Even most right wingers admit it. Libertarianism is a theory some conservatives believe in, fascism is an extreme variation of reactionary right wing conservative views. Corporations are what capitalism produces in practice.

Unfounded garbage from start to finish. I'm not even going bother addressing this ideological smegma. Next...

Your views only exist in America.

Nope. I'm not American. Nor were many of the founding fathers of modern libertarian theory. Hint: google "the Austrian school of economics" and see what kind of goodies that brings up!

Bean Machine wrote:

Jack McOck wrote: So you agree she never answered me? I'll read your article if you answer this honestly.

Wait, so Myrnova is a chick? Suddenly things are making a lot more sense...

Agreeing with yourself now dreamon?

Fucking mults in this forum....

He's actually trying to argue that U.S. initiation of force against Nazi Germany was immoral. Farcical.

Bean Machine wrote:Do you believe that the initiation or threat of force is immoral?

Wow. Basing your whole argument on a loaded question? That's dumb.