The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

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LoopStationZebra
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by LoopStationZebra » Fri May 31, 2013 4:58 pm

Oh, both of course.

:lol:
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

myrnova
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by myrnova » Fri May 31, 2013 6:41 pm

being gay in 1850 was like being loopstationzebra nowadays: something "weird" :roll:

mikemc
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by mikemc » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:22 pm

Vivo wrote:The truth is that the U.S. Constitution is modeled in both principle and form on the Great Law of Peace of the Native American tribe known as the Iroquois.

This is absolutely, unequivocally historical fact.

In 1987, the United States Senate acknowledged that the Great Law of Peace of the Iroquois Nations served as a model for the Constitution of the United States. (U.S. S. Con. Res. 76, 2 Dec. 1987).

And since the U.S. Constitution was a model for the charter of the United Nations, the Iroquois Great Law of Peace is also a basis of international law.

http://mollylarkin.com/the-history-u-s- ... ht-school/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ3Z74xO ... IWpKdfDW8E
Two things:

1) This is true...
2) it is not the only governmental system used as a model for the design of what became the US government, there were pre-existing European models. But..
3) The confederacy of Indian nations that call themselves the Five or Six Nations, and who referred to themselves as "Haudenosaunee", People of the Longhouse, and consisting of Mohawk, Seneca, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga (the original five) and later Tuscarora (the sixth) are still extant and still practice their original governmental system.

Early American settlers served as observing delegates of this system, and some of these later were involved in colonial politics.

As noted in the linked article, the major difference between the system employed by the Six Nations and that of the US was that the assembly of sachems (who the settlers tended to mistake as "chiefs") did not represent the will of the people in various "districts", but they represented the will of the various clan mothers of the nations in question. The nations were comprised of clans and each of those were led by a clan mother.

Something that the linked article completely glosses over is the commitment of the sachems to the clan mothers. If the sachem was to represent a point of view differing from the clan mother's, two "club men" were to sit beside him and formally request that he revise. If, after three times of being asked, he did not recant his vioew, he was to be clubbed to death right there in the assembly hall.

Similarly, if a tribe were to be confronted by one of the Six Nations and invited to come under the Law of Peach, they were so invited three times, and if they refused the third time they were conquered.

The Great Law of Peach does not have a contingency for what to do if they were not conquered. Because they always were.

Even the United States was conquered by the Great Law of Peace, because it's founders recognized it's power and chose to come under the Law. However, the adaptation of it is and was somewhat lacking, in ways that the somewhat sugary article linked to points out and also others, and believe it or not this is the source of all of the problems the country currently faces. Every one of them.

But it is so that the Peacemaker brought the law at a time when all the tribes were warring, and he showed them the way of their errors, and how much stronger they would be bound as one, and that the "tree of liberty" referred to is symbolically the very same great tree invoked in the symbology of the Great Law.

This is the definitive book on the subject:

http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/FF.html

[edit] the first one to respond, "but that's three things" is required to read the whole post and all the links therein, becase I said "but" to add the third thing, and yes it was a BIG BUT you WAnkers.

Machinesworking
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:28 am

^^^
mikemc for the win!

Cracks me up how liberals always gloss over any violence that tribal customs had,
and how the anti liberal crowd is quick to ignore any truth to what the left says.
The truth is almost always somewhere in the grey area between.

re:dream
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by re:dream » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:14 am

Machinesworking wrote:^^^
The truth is almost always somewhere in the grey area between.
But that would take most of the fun out of internet debating

8O

LoopStationZebra
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:18 pm

Shall I start posting various rebuttals (inc. several from American Indian scholars, FFS :lol: ) that place these claims under the 'dubious at best' category?

omfg.

It's like the claim that Christian groups constantly make that the Bible was a major influence on the Constitution. omfg. OMFG. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is revisionist history, plain and simple. A motherfucking SENATE RULING (omfg) doesn't make it so. omfg. OMFG. :lol:

Various and near totally obscure INTERNET SCHOLARS doesn't make it so. omfg. OMFG. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What this really gets down to is the undying need for white liberals to negate the role that old white men had in shaping the Constitution.

omfg.

Here's the list of influences:

Romans
Greeks
English
French Enlightenment - Diderot, Voltaire, Rousseau, and Montesquieu.


Honestly, this is truly one of the worst threads we've had in quite some time and really shows how utterly retarded we've become.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Vivo
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by Vivo » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:23 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:Shall I start posting various rebuttals (inc. several from American Indian scholars, FFS :lol: ) that place these claims under the 'dubious at best' category?

omfg.

It's like the claim that Christian groups constantly make that the Bible was a major influence on the Constitution. omfg. OMFG. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is revisionist history, plain and simple. A motherfucking SENATE RULING (omfg) doesn't make it so. omfg. OMFG. :lol:

Various and near totally obscure INTERNET SCHOLARS doesn't make it so. omfg. OMFG. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What this really gets down to is the undying need for white liberals to negate the role that old white men had in shaping the Constitution.

omfg.

Here's the list of influences:

Romans
Greeks
English
French Enlightenment - Diderot, Voltaire, Rousseau, and Montesquieu.


Honestly, this is truly one of the worst threads we've had in quite some time and really shows how utterly retarded we've become.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image

Vivo
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by Vivo » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:23 pm

Your entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

Image

On June 11, 1776 while the question of independence was being debated, the visiting Iroquois chiefs were formally invited into the meeting hall of the Continental Congress. There a speech was delivered, in which they were addressed as "Brothers" and told of the delegates' wish that the "friendship" between them would "continue as long as the sun shall shine" and the "waters run." The speech also expressed the hope that the new Americans and the Iroquois act "as one people, and have but one heart."[18] After this speech, an Onondaga chief requested permission to give Hancock an Indian name. The Congress graciously consented, and so the president was renamed "Karanduawn, or the Great Tree." With the Iroquois chiefs inside the halls of Congress on the eve of American Independence, the impact of Iroquois ideas on the founders is unmistakable. History is indebted to Charles Thomson, an adopted Delaware, whose knowledge of and respect for American Indians is reflected in the attention that he gave to this ceremony in the records of the Continental Congress.[19]

[19] For more detail regarding the naming of Hancock by the Onondagas, see Ford, ed., Journals, V, p. 430. In this ceremony, the Iroquois sachems are resolving their concern about the nature of the executive in the Continental Congress that they expressed in the previous year at the August 31, 1775 treaty meeting at Albany, New York (see "Proceedings . . . with the Six Nations, 1775," Papers of the Continental Congress, 1774-89, National Archives (M247, Roll 144, Item No. 134). It is also interesting to note that Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence) and James Wilson (principal author of the first draft of the Constitution) were on the Standing Committee on Indian Affairs in the Continental Congress during 1776 (see Ford, ed., Journals, VI, p. 1050). Formal and informal relations with the Iroquois continued throughout the revolutionary era. An Oneida woman, Polly Cook, served as George Washington's cook during the revolution. The Oneidas also brought corn to Washington's troops during the bitter winter at Valley Forge thus enabling the Continental Army to survive. See Cara Richards, The Oneida People, (Phoenix: Indian Tribal Series, 1974), pp. 53-54.

http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/
Last edited by Vivo on Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

SuburbanThug
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by SuburbanThug » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:28 pm

Omfg + Shitloads of emoticons + A dash of calling people retards = Epic win

Vivo
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by Vivo » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:36 pm

Who was Charles Thomson?

Thomson gained a reputation for integrity that was his hallmark. He was trusted by the Indians in negotiations with the settlers. The Delaware Indians adopted him with the name meaning, “The man who tells the truth.” ? He was active in Pennsylvania politics and was in the forefront in all of the Colonial controversies with the British. As the chief surviving link between the old colonial government and the new, Thomson was chosen to notify George Washington of his election to the presidency. He then resigned his post as secretary of the Continental Congress and custodian of the records.

http://chicagoscots.net/Great%20Scots/T ... harles.htm

"It's as true as if Charles Thomson's name were on it."

As Secretary, Thomson's name was regarded as an emblem of truth. In all the factional disputes of the Revolutionary period, his judgment was respected. During the rumors and uncertainties of the Revolutionary War, Thomson helped the Continental Congress retain the faith and support of the people by insisting that full and honest reports be issued, under his signature, concerning all battles and engagements whether won or lost.

His reputation was such that his reports were in great demand. When a Congressional paper appeared containing his signature the expression was frequently heard, "Here comes the Truth."

Ranked closely to the President, Thomson stands to the right of John Hancock in the painting of the Declaration of Independence seen on the two-dollar bill. In fact, Hancock's and Thomson's are the only two names on the Dunlap broadside, the copy of the Declaration printed the night of July 4th – the only version made public for the next six months.

http://greatseal.com/committees/finalde ... omson.html

Styles Bitchly
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Re: The Great Law of Peace / forgotten US History

Post by Styles Bitchly » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:51 pm

Vivo wrote:The truth is that the U.S. Constitution is modeled in both principle and form on the Great Law of Peace of the Native American tribe known as the Iroquois.

This is absolutely, unequivocally historical fact.

In 1987, the United States Senate acknowledged that the Great Law of Peace of the Iroquois Nations served as a model for the Constitution of the United States. (U.S. S. Con. Res. 76, 2 Dec. 1987).

And since the U.S. Constitution was a model for the charter of the United Nations, the Iroquois Great Law of Peace is also a basis of international law.

http://mollylarkin.com/the-history-u-s- ... ht-school/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ3Z74xOxr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIWpKdfDW8E

Yeah, and this guy is hell bent on fucking it all up. :x

Image

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