Climate Change - Redux

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earthloop
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:58 pm

Climate Change - Redux

Post by earthloop » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:58 pm

With thanks to krulecello for starting the original thread, I thought I would create a new thread on this topic because I am very interested in THE ACTUAL TOPIC!!! Please keep this one on topic and lets have a proper discussion of this important subject. Cheers! :)

Now, I believe that the best approach to addressing dangerous climate change must begin with reversing a system of production and consumption which began with The Industrial Revolution (or perhaps even slightly earlier with The Agrarian Revolution) wherein mass production of goods and the centralisation of services delivery (i.e. power, water, sewage etc), began. This 'system' has outlived it's usefulness and has reached a point where it has turned more and more of the world's population into passive consumers.

This applies much more to the developed world, of course, but China, India and Brazil are adding Billions of people to the world's middle classes very rapidly.

The above process was necessary at the time to provide the platform needed to create economies of scale which would provide enough resources to create the technologies required to take us to the next stage of our evolution as a globalised community. (the internet is an excellent example of technology convergence which has lead to the social phenomenon of globalisation (as opposed to the economic/industrial one).

What we need to do now, imo, is to decentralise the processes of goods and services production by deploying the technologies we now have to produce more locally ... especially the most highly polluting industries like energy production and transport (especially road transport). The idea is to create populations of people in smaller scale (but not tiny like villages) who spend more time making things than just consuming things.

It is this type of change which will be the primary driver of rapid reduction of carbon pollution because it will drive research into ways of using alternative manufacturing processes to create the industrial products which we need. Well, this is just an outline...a brief sketch of a thesis I am developing for a PhD. in sustainable development. There is much more to it but it is late and I am tired . I thought I would put this up for discussion and critique as I would like some feedback and, of course as the thread title suggests, to 'reboot' this discussion.

Cheers! :D

earthloop
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by earthloop » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:29 pm

...of course, post anything else directly relevant to the topic of climate change, of course. :)

knotkranky
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by knotkranky » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:03 pm

I'll never expect a centralized change in government and corporate practice on climate change prevention unless we hit them where it count$. They do not want us to use less of their products. Of course push back, and often!

So more importantly, one's personal carbon footprint needs to have a conscience daily effort.

Tons of "how to's" and how to calculate your carbon output in the usual places.

:mrgreen:

regretfullySaid
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:06 pm

I don't know if this has to do with being a Pisces or not, but I'd prefer a watery cataclysm over a fiery one, but I'm pretty sure the Hopi said Fire was up next.

That is all.
ImageImage

earthloop
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:58 pm

Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by earthloop » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:36 pm

knotkranky wrote:I'll never expect a centralized change in government and corporate practice on climate change prevention unless we hit them where it count$. They do not want us to use less of their products. Of course push back, and often!

So more importantly, one's personal carbon footprint needs to have a conscience daily effort.

Tons of "how to's" and how to calculate your carbon output in the usual places.

:mrgreen:
The "how to's" are my forte. For instance, one reason I mentioned the internet was that I was foreshadowing something I was going to write later...but may as well mention it now. I am going to propose that we look at decentralising energy production on a broad scale by breaking down our electricity grids into an internet like structure with 'local area grids' (which would be like community grids owned locally (in suburbs in big cities) or in localities in smaller towns etc.

These in turn would be made up of individual homes self powered by whatever small scale technology is appropriate for the area (i.e. solar; small scale wind turbine; micro hydro; fuel cell etc). Just like the internet, the physical structure of which was actually designed by the U.S. military in the 80's (cold war times) to create a communications network with multiple redundancies built in so that in the event of nuclear war messages could still get around damaged areas...this decentralised grid would be more efficient and create the basis for both rapid technological change in energy production technology to be implemented quickly, AND create the means for people to produce products locally. Even to collectively power local electric light rail /trams and recharging stations for electric cars etc.(opportunity for local business).

I am giving away a potentially patentable idea here (innovation patent) but I am tired of no-one taking this type of idea seriously unless they can own it and exploit it for thier own enrichment, which is the opposite of what I am proposing. It is all about power,,,in both senses of the word. The above is an example of one of the 'how to's' you mentioned. The big problem is legislation which enables big energy companies to dominate power supply. In most of Australia, you cannot, as an individual, create and sell energy into the grid unless you sell it to a major energy supplier first, among other obstacles.

Anyway, there is one example of how I am thinking about that part of the problem. It is about making people more independent of both cororate and governmental control. And yes I know, as you said, neither of them want to give up any of that control. We will have to take it by stealth. Grass roots and all that. :mrgreen:

earthloop
Posts: 580
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by earthloop » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm

shadx312 wrote:I don't know if this has to do with being a Pisces or not, but I'd prefer a watery cataclysm over a fiery one, but I'm pretty sure the Hopi said Fire was up next.

That is all.
I think that might be right!

knotkranky
Posts: 4336
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: la

Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by knotkranky » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:34 pm

earthloop wrote:
knotkranky wrote:I'll never expect a centralized change in government and corporate practice on climate change prevention unless we hit them where it count$. They do not want us to use less of their products. Of course push back, and often!

So more importantly, one's personal carbon footprint needs to have a conscience daily effort.

Tons of "how to's" and how to calculate your carbon output in the usual places.

:mrgreen:
The "how to's" are my forte. For instance, one reason I mentioned the internet was that I was foreshadowing something I was going to write later...but may as well mention it now. I am going to propose that we look at decentralising energy production on a broad scale by breaking down our electricity grids into an internet like structure with 'local area grids' (which would be like community grids owned locally (in suburbs in big cities) or in localities in smaller towns etc.

These in turn would be made up of individual homes self powered by whatever small scale technology is appropriate for the area (i.e. solar; small scale wind turbine; micro hydro; fuel cell etc). Just like the internet, the physical structure of which was actually designed by the U.S. military in the 80's (cold war times) to create a communications network with multiple redundancies built in so that in the event of nuclear war messages could still get around damaged areas...this decentralised grid would be more efficient and create the basis for both rapid technological change in energy production technology to be implemented quickly, AND create the means for people to produce products locally. Even to collectively power local electric light rail /trams and recharging stations for electric cars etc.(opportunity for local business).

I am giving away a potentially patentable idea here (innovation patent) but I am tired of no-one taking this type of idea seriously unless they can own it and exploit it for thier own enrichment, which is the opposite of what I am proposing. It is all about power,,,in both senses of the word. The above is an example of one of the 'how to's' you mentioned. The big problem is legislation which enables big energy companies to dominate power supply. In most of Australia, you cannot, as an individual, create and sell energy into the grid unless you sell it to a major energy supplier first, among other obstacles.

Anyway, there is one example of how I am thinking about that part of the problem. It is about making people more independent of both cororate and governmental control. And yes I know, as you said, neither of them want to give up any of that control. We will have to take it by stealth. Grass roots and all that. :mrgreen:
Makes perfect sense to me. Innovation will drive the personal energy market imo. There will be a rapid loss of carbon the first stages if everybody simply did the standard issue stuff. Hearts and minds things. Then the next level, the sustainable farming industry, will bring the first goodies to urban and city living. They are really pushing it with some great stuff. The gov/corporations will want in, like industrial farming wants in on organic food. Which is messing crap up as you know. "Self preservation Fellowship" Sounds good.

Check this>> http://www.polyfacefarms.com/principles/

H20nly
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by H20nly » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:39 pm

shadx312 wrote:I don't know if this has to do with being a Pisces or not, but I'd prefer a watery cataclysm over a fiery one, but I'm pretty sure the Hopi said Fire was up next.
we just left the age of Aquarius (water)... the one that Christ may have been talking about... "i will be with you until the end of the age". now it's Capricorn. so, if you believe in that type of thing... it's an earth age. based on that logic expect earthquakes and molten rock. all of which will be due exclusively to American pollution.

knotkranky
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by knotkranky » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:46 pm

^ Right. And this is where religion fucks us (AGAIN) because they want that shit now. Burn the world and get jesus here right away so we can fuck the rest with "end of days" or whatever that crap is. No environment for them. It's meant to be conquered!..... Ok, now i'm actually scared :?

H20nly
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by H20nly » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:51 pm

i would be too if i lived in L.A.

knotkranky
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Location: la

Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by knotkranky » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:36 pm

LA is its own country. The 'city' of LA is the beach. And it's a heavenly life my friend :wink:

Jack McOck
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by Jack McOck » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:13 pm

2 eggs
3 bananas

blend with fork until good and pasty, fry mini pancake portions in mix of coconut butter and butter.

Best breakfast ever.

regretfullySaid
Posts: 8913
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:20 pm

Hmm, I'd have to add hot sauce, bacon bits, melted cheddar and some ranch to it. Because I add that to EVERYTHING.
ImageImage

Jack McOck
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Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by Jack McOck » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:30 pm

I'm partial to bacon strips and green Tabasco myself.

GOOD TIMES.

knotkranky
Posts: 4336
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: la

Re: Climate Change - Redux

Post by knotkranky » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:32 pm

Jack McOck wrote:2 eggs
3 bananas

blend with fork until good and pasty, fry mini pancake portions in mix of coconut butter and butter.

Best breakfast ever.
What!!!? That sounds f'ing brilliant!! Thank you!

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