Egypt

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john gordon
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Location: Delaware

Re: Egypt

Post by john gordon » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:29 pm

earthloop wrote:
john gordon wrote:..if the whole Middle East just disappeared the world would be
a much better place.
Well there is one way that could be made to happen...oh, wait...Israel is there too. :roll:
Good they can disappear as well along with everyone else in the world except me and 3 million hot Asian females.

Jack McOck
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:06 pm

Re: Egypt

Post by Jack McOck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:33 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Jack McOck wrote:You can't impose democracy on a country. Democracy must come from a genuine will of the people if it is to work, and it looks as if the Egyptian people have not yet reach a sufficient level of civilisation to be worthy of such government. I recommend they all be chained together and forced to build another giant pointy sandcastle.
Don't expect anyone to take you seriously Cocky, with statements like that. It's not big and it's not clever.

signed
Dr. F.N. Furter, future Ableton forum moderator.
Observably false, I already have a +1 from Knotkranky.

signed
YOUR FUCKING DADDY

simmerdown
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Location: Northwest Nowhere

Re: Egypt

Post by simmerdown » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:55 pm

such a shame, this thread could have saved many, many lives

andydes
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Re: Egypt

Post by andydes » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:20 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
andydes wrote:
I think you presume wrong this time. Not sure how the US could engineer millions of Egyptians to get on the streets. They're not that clever.
I dunno what makes you think I said that
You said presumably the US switched allegiance to the military. Was that not an implication that the US are behind or at least heavily involved in all this? If not, why mention them?

Morsi was finished. His cabinet were resigning due to the masses on the streets.

Seems to me the army acted too quickly and could well have made things much more difficult for the future.

I started this thread because many people here say we need a revolution. The question is what happens if after the revolution is over, a large number of people aren't happy with the outcome?

Another revolution apparently.

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: Egypt

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:28 pm

andydes wrote: This could be a new model for democracy. Screw having 4 years before you stand for re election. You now have half that time to see progress, before we come for you.
I have no problem with this, you lie to the people, or impose laws they don't want, you're gone.
Egypt is doing it right.

myrnova
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Re: Egypt

Post by myrnova » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:33 pm

Wait and see: the U.S.A. don't give a damn about egyptian "freedom". They need to occupy that area, calling the egyptian army "allied". People there are fed up with muslims and this is the big risk: a civil war could start among people who want a non-religious state and people who want "traditions". The only way to start a real revolution is through the destruction of theocracy. Egypt is still a dictatorship, and that is what the U.S.A. need: non-muslim or muslim, does not matter for the U.S. The most important thing is that Egypt remain a pseudo-democracy. In case of a civil,war, the U.S. will start dropping bombs and "exporting democracy". Just wait and see :roll: Just remember the U.S.A.-Israel alliance, one of the most dangerous and criminal ever in human history, and realize why for the U.S.A. the strategic control of that area is of first importance.

Jack McOck
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Re: Egypt

Post by Jack McOck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:35 pm

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Glenn Beck

andydes
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Re: Egypt

Post by andydes » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:46 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
andydes wrote: This could be a new model for democracy. Screw having 4 years before you stand for re election. You now have half that time to see progress, before we come for you.
I have no problem with this, you lie to the people, or impose laws they don't want, you're gone.
Egypt is doing it right.
Tempting, but risky. It's hard to gauge numbers who support a change in government looking at an angry mob. Polling stations are more accurate.

I rather see real proper real accountability for those found lying, breaking laws, putting their own financial interests ahead of the country. Not just a "inquiry" and a move out of the limelight for a couple of years, but prison time. 5 years for a backhander, life for a war justified on bullshit.

earthloop
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Re: Egypt

Post by earthloop » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:56 pm

Jack McOck wrote:"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Glenn Beck
I know it is an extended metaphor and all, but that saying reminds me of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7SkrYF8lCU

:lol:

andydes
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Location: Bremen

Re: Egypt

Post by andydes » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:32 pm

myrnova wrote:Wait and see: the U.S.A. don't give a damn about egyptian "freedom". They need to occupy that area, calling the egyptian army "allied". People there are fed up with muslims and this is the big risk: a civil war could start among people who want a non-religious state and people who want "traditions". The only way to start a real revolution is through the destruction of theocracy. Egypt is still a dictatorship, and that is what the U.S.A. need: non-muslim or muslim, does not matter for the U.S. The most important thing is that Egypt remain a pseudo-democracy. In case of a civil,war, the U.S. will start dropping bombs and "exporting democracy". Just wait and see :roll: Just remember the U.S.A.-Israel alliance, one of the most dangerous and criminal ever in human history, and realize why for the U.S.A. the strategic control of that area is of first importance.
I'd rather not get too wrapped up in America's take on all this. You are of course right that they don't care who is in power as long as it's someone they can deal with. They've certainly prefered stable dictatorships to unpredictable democracies before.

I think you vastly overestimate the amount of public support they'd have to get involved in more intervention. Things have changed since Iraq.

earthloop
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Re: Egypt

Post by earthloop » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:39 pm

Actually, if you look at Egypt's history, the current situation is just a reversion to egypt's historical form of governance dating back to the pharaohs.

Egypt has been governed in this way for centuries until very recently. I wonder if military rule is just a sort of reversion back to this historical mode of governance. A sort of cultural predisposition which would explain why the Islamists cannot gain power in Egypt. Islam is actually foreign to Egypt historically,
which might explain why the military backed the liberal anti Islamist movement in this situation (the military did say in it's statement that they were acting on behalf of "the glorious public will"...or words to that effect. They did use the word glorious to describe the public demonstrations against Morsi.

Machinesworking
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Re: Egypt

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:48 pm

Jack McOck wrote:"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Glenn Beck
That's Thomas Jefferson you plebe! :lol:
http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/in ... Quotation)

simmerdown
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Location: Northwest Nowhere

Re: Egypt

Post by simmerdown » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:57 pm

...but glenn beck gets bonus points for crying while he bit the quote... such a dildo

knotkranky
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Re: Egypt

Post by knotkranky » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:50 pm

This is because there was only a political revolution at best. This cannot solve the problems faced by the Egyptian masses. A social revolution is required
yep, simply put.

I lost interest in egypt when Sadat was assassinated. Which is about as close to a modern egypt as you'll get this millenium.

The mid-east is barely managed, never governed. Circumstance and consequence rule

Sadat assassination > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb1niJFyVwU

Jack McOck
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Re: Egypt

Post by Jack McOck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:54 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
Jack McOck wrote:"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Glenn Beck
That's Thomas Jefferson you plebe! :lol:
http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/in ... Quotation)
Image

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