Ableton Forum

Steve Ballmer wrote:But is it a democracy?

In my opinion it is a military dictatorship, not a real democracy. It only resembles a democracy (because of the "panem et circenses" gifts given by the state to the people: sex, some drugs, movies, products, sport, fake "freedom of speech"... the romans did the same 2000 years ago... but the shitty movies ). Otherwise, it is just a military system started with a genocide (10-20 millions natives deaths) and based on war propaganda and guns, death penalty, war, racism, segregationism, disrespect of international laws, censorship, colonialism, torture. People in America believe they are living "in a democracy" because of the old american revolution and the 7/4/1776 learnt in school. Actually, their "democracy" is made of a democratic party (one of the most racist parties ever, istill in 1965 it was for segregationism and jim crow laws) and the "Republicans" (which nowadays are the fake "conservative" ones, right?). This is the utmost U.S. can offer in terms of "democracy", alas.

Agreed.

Funk N. Furter wrote:The problem with Obama's plans is that they don't go far enough. In my opinion healthcare should be free for everyone. And the providers (hospitals etc) should be publicly owned. It's fairer, cheaper, what's not to like? It's known as 'single-payer' in America.

I'm going to go on record as saying I'm not for Obama care per se... I'm for something better than what we have (you know, Edger Kaiser and Nixon's pyramid scheme), but the point your post is failing to consider... Look how hard it is just to get this little bit passed. They've damn near shut down over arguing about it like a bunch of spoiled children.

The country is in an uproar about the health care (see nathannn's post). Ironically, people are saying that they don't want government healthcare... yet they sign up for Medicare in droves. I work in health care and the number of senior citizens calling in because of a story they heard on Fox News has them terrified and because they don't want the government meddling in their healthcare is absurd... meanwhile, you look their plan up in the system and voilà! They have Medicare.

<--that

Oh, and let's not forget what those who've chosen a stalemate as a tactic have... Free health care... Well, free... I helped pay for that son of an immigrant's check ups and pharmaceuticals. Even Alanis is crystal clear on this.

just remember... your theory is just that... your theory... then, there is what is happening now... even as we type this banter.

Funk N. Furter wrote:Our free healthcare in the UK is real by the way, not theory.

And also a nightmare.

Steve Ballmer wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

Steve Ballmer wrote: Would you like me to 8 or 16 bit you?

Nothing more boring than grammar nazis, except maybe people in heavily successful social democratic countries that have opinions on the horrors of socialism.

You're forgetting those bores who mistake their 102 IQs for 110 IQs and permit themselves to have opinions.

There are reasons I'm not that engaged in conversations with you.
Mostly it's because you offer only jibs and ad hominem attacks in place of any real debate, and because you off zero solutions to any real problems with your ideological 'agenda'. Funken may be a fanatic, but you offer less in the way of solutions than he does, which is a feat nobody should feel comfortable achieving.

Mostly you offer trolling and evasion in place of real debate, which leaves me bored out of my skull.

Machinesworking wrote:There are reasons I'm not that engaged in conversations with you.
Mostly it's because you offer only jibs and ad hominem attacks in place of any real debate, and because you off zero solutions to any real problems with your ideological 'agenda'. Funken may be a fanatic, but you offer less in the way of solutions than he does, which is a feat nobody should feel comfortable achieving.

Mostly you offer trolling and evasion in place of real debate, which leaves me bored out of my skull.

See my above post.

Funk N. Furter wrote:

H20nly wrote:just remember... your theory is just that... your theory... then, there is what is happening now... even as we type this banter.

The evidence for my first point is overwhelming. There is very strong and clear evidence to support my second.

The fact that there is so much evidence for my first point means that we have to choose what I outlined in any case.

Basically we have 3 choices:

1. Capitalism (right wing) - nightmare
2. Capitalism (reformism) - discredits the left, provokes the right, leads to more of 1.
3. Socialism - the only alternative.

you miss my point...

i'm not debating whether or not your concepts are good or valid... what i'm stating is that they are not the ideas in place. the ideas in place are what they are and they are all we have. coming up with an idea to change matters is one step that can be taken... implementing it is a separate and far more challenging step. just look at the uproar Obama Care has caused... that is what i was referencing.

there is no other option... we don't get to try it your way funken. sorry, that's not a jab... it's the simple truth.

john gordon wrote:

Funk N. Furter wrote:

john gordon wrote:im giving the obama administration a big fuck you with his socialist agenda. people are actually buying his story? too funny.lick my balls obama and while youre at it sniff my taint just a little...

Why on earth would you think that Obama has a 'socialist agenda'?

He forcing me to get insurance or I have to pay a penalty... This doesn't sound like the American way in my eyes..The deductible people are going to have to pay is outrageous. Idk maybe if I can can get it for 60 bucks a month I'll consider it.
I just don't the govt telling me I have to do anything. Who are they ??

Couldn't disagree more. I've been to the emergency room many times over the last decade, with kids it's at least a once a year trip, and tons of people without insurance use emergency room trips as essentially subsidized health care. By tons i mean at least one every time i'm there. Show up, get the health care you need on the taxpayers dime. I prefer a system that requires people to be covered. Are you upset that you can't drive without insurance too?

docprosper wrote:Couldn't disagree more. I've been to the emergency room many times over the last decade, with kids it's at least a once a year trip, and tons of people without insurance use emergency room trips as essentially subsidized health care. By tons i mean at least one every time i'm there. Show up, get the health care you need on the taxpayers dime. I prefer a system that requires people to be covered. Are you upset that you can't drive without insurance too?

Fascist.

Anklebiters gonna anklebite.

Funk N. Furter wrote:

docprosper wrote:Are you upset that you can't drive without insurance too?

But surely the law requiring car insurance is a limitation on our freedom, based on a hoax (see RTAs - Do they really happen) designed to satisfy governments' insatiable lust for power?

I would argue that we should abolish driver's licenses, tout court.

Funk N. Furter wrote:I know. But I don't accept the status quo, and I think about the long term. Somebody has to. A fundamental of Marxist philosophy is that everything is constantly changing. Well, in nature things don't necessarily evolve for the better. Neither do they in human society. The 'subjective factor' is that people can change what's 'in place'. I will never support what's unacceptable because it's easier. Of course I would welcome small improvements, but I would always point out that they don't go far enough.

"Subjective: based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions
• dependent on the mind or on an individual's perception for its existence."

Marx is an idiot.

Funk N. Furter wrote:Only Marxists understand the subjective factor in history. Actually, I'm quite sure that you would exaggerate the importance of the subjective factor most of the time. Yet at the same time you cling to 'absolutes' such as 'human nature' and the 'naturalness' of capitalism.

If you tried to analyse history it would mostly consist of subjective stuff, eg you analysis of the 2008 crash is all about 'poor decisions' and 'government policies'. It's all about the actions of individuals being to blame. 'If only they had done things properly'. There is nothing that gets to the root causes. This is the same with your analysis of everything. This is why you personalise everything. This is because to you, the subjective factor is everything. Yet when it really counts, you discount the subjective factor all of a sudden, proclaiming the inevitability of capitalism as god-given as the sun revolving round the earth

Marxists don't understand what the word "subjective" means.