I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Discuss anything related to audio or music production.
re:dream
Posts: 4598
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by re:dream » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:50 am

Yes, I understand that market-based healthcare worsens inequality.

I was just saying that a long digression on South Africa's Gini or 'poverty porn was probably not advancing the original debate & that I would withdraw to let the discussion continue on topic


On that note:

After about ten days of this merry flamewar I think on the whole I have decided that it isn't really contributing to my or anyone else's entertainment or sense of wellbeing to indulge in long Finn-versus-Funkster debates. Both my attempts to offer constructive points, and my challenges and questions just seem to end in rancorous bullying.

So I don't really wish to engage in much more sparring. You can take my plea aboard, or not. I don't much care either way.

Bean Machine
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:46 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Bean Machine » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:50 am

Funk N. Furter wrote:To work the land, and to provide for them in their old age. Photos like that usually happen when there is a local drought, and crops fail, so you get a catastrophic situation. Capitalism makes it even worse because the price of food goes up when there is a local shortage.
I see. So it's capitalism's fault that prices go up when supply goes down? Interesting...

What about the law of gravity? Is that also capitalism's fault?

Galt
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:47 am

The Finn wrote:Check out that picture, for instance. As Galt asked - who is the person? Where are they? Do we even know what country they are in? Sure, you got it off a youtube video; but in that video, the image is used precisely in the way that Binyavana Wainana objects against. Google that image, and you will get upwards of 140 000 hits - but nowhere that I looked (I trawled through the first 40 hits or so) could I get any clue about who it is and where.
Glad we can finally see eye to eye on a topic. See, I'm not just out to Trollt your sweet, honeysuckle ass. 8)

re:dream
Posts: 4598
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by re:dream » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:59 am

My ass? You leave my ass out of this thread.


And it ain't sweet anyway. It is white and skinny.

:evil:

Galt
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:06 pm

The Finn wrote:My ass? You leave my ass out of this thread.


And it ain't sweet anyway. It is white and skinny.

:evil:
Racist.

Galt
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:14 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:I will read the rest of the post later, I'm off to the hospital for my regular free checkup with an eye consultant on the NHS.
Ah yes, the NHS... a fine example of socialised medicine:


"Police are investigating allegations that [NHS] hospital staff were “pressured or bullied” to falsify data to disguise delays for cancer patients, which may have put lives at .

The Care Quality Commission (CQC) found “inaccuracies” with waiting time data relating to cancer treatment at Colchester Hospital University NHS Foundation Trust. The chief inspector of hospitals said that patients’ lives may have been put at risk so the trust could give an impression it was meeting waiting list targets.

Essex Police said that it was examining whether a “criminal investigation” was needed."
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/1 ... times.html)


How droll to think that a socialised healthcare system would care more about its reputation than patient care. How droll indeed. And what a shame that their cheap service has killed off any potential affordable market alternative. Basically, what this amounts to is that if you're poor, English and have a serious health issue, you're screwed. Thank you Big Government.

Bean Machine
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:46 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Bean Machine » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:50 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:In a socialist world that would not happen, at least not to the point where people are denied food.
Y'know, denial ain't just a river in Egypt… :roll:
Gravity is different, it's a law of physics and is not determined by a person changing a number on a price label.
Nonsense! Why, in a socialist economy, people would be able to overcome gravity simply by flapping their arms up and down. You clearly haven't read your Trotsky!

Bean Machine
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:46 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Bean Machine » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:55 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:Image

You want to know their names? Well I can find out, the woman is a friend of mine.

By the way I asked Ableton to sponsor this charity but they declined.
Ayo, they sum dignified lookin muthafuckaz, nuhmean? Cept fo dat skinny-ass white bitch. She gotz da nappy hair n shit, nuhmean? Bitch look like she wuz stewed n a pickle jar since birth, g. Word up.

Galt
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:53 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:You want to know their names? Well I can find out, the woman is a friend of mine.
Why do you think that posting pictures of non-starving blacks who names you could... find out... somehow makes amends for prostituting the image of starving blacks whose names you can't?

What do you think this rather odd tactic is going to achieve?
Funk N. Furter wrote:By the way I asked Ableton to sponsor this charity but they declined.
So, Ableton are... racist for not giving money to non-starving blacks?

Your wannabe moral high ground has just slid into the sea.

Galt
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:39 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:Well...Sharky seemed so desperate to find out the name of a skinny young African boy. I was only trying to help.
You know... you can't just substitute one skinny African for another. They're individuals. :roll: :lol:

Machinesworking
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:42 pm

Galt wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:You simply don't get it, there all kinds of varying degrees of skill, it's not just Bill Gates and Steve Jobs types VS the most drug addled welfare recipient. Mostly people are good at their normal, 'not running a billion dollar a year company', job. They make decent food for you in the restaurant, they pick up your garbage, do your taxes and build a decent house. Your thinking is entirely black and white about people, and therefore completely inadequate. It's small minded.
You're still having a hard time with this whole reading thing, aren't you. Like I said "the few of us who are actually able and willing to do a good job end up supporting the remaining majority of talentless leeches. And this happens at all levels of society, from quarry workers to factory workers, to artists to industrialists."

You keep on trying to straw man me, fabricating excuses to attack my posts and call me small minded. This makes you a dishonest douche. Not quite a Funken-douche, but still a douche nonetheless.

[insert random joke about your tiny wee-wee here]
No problem reading your ideas, but you seem to completely ignore that I've said over and over again that the majority of people do their jobs well, while you harp on about how only a select few are capable of making your sandwich correctly or any other job. You seem to think there are a select few who carry the rest which is entirely backwards, there are hundreds who carry the select few. iOS wasn't designed by Jobs, he was the focal point, and has value of course, but it's simply not true that he is the sole reason apple made successful products. The same is true for XP, OSX, your house etc. and in no way is 90% of your house put together by leeches where 10% are carrying their dead weight. That's the kind of unrealistic picture of society you seem to have.

You paint a black and white picture of the world, one that's cherished by certain right wing think tanks, it makes as much sense as forced collectivism. In fact it's the base tenant of fascism, not saying you want that type of system, but the starting point for their ideology is that there are only a few great men who make this world, the rest are sheep and leeches.

earthloop
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:58 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by earthloop » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:14 pm

Galt wrote: You're still having a hard time with this whole reading thing, aren't you. Like I said "the few of us who are actually able and willing to do a good job end up supporting the remaining majority of talentless leeches. And this happens at all levels of society, from quarry workers to factory workers, to artists to industrialists."
This really borders on outright discrimination! How exactly do you define a 'talentless leech' ? It is the dominant modes of production of primary goods and services which makes people seem like 'leeches'. Workers are forced more and more these days to take menial roles in the production processes of our developed societies because by making these workers seem talentless 'leeches' large employers can exert control over wages like they haven't been able to do since before the industrial revolution!!!

Galt
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:35 pm

earthloop wrote:This really borders on outright discrimination!
It's only discrimination if I don't invite them to my parties. Which I don't.

Galt
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Galt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:41 pm

Machinesworking wrote:No problem reading your ideas, but you seem to completely ignore that I've said over and over again that the majority of people do their jobs well, while you harp on about how only a select few are capable of making your sandwich correctly or any other job. You seem to think there are a select few who carry the rest which is entirely backwards, there are hundreds who carry the select few. iOS wasn't designed by Jobs, he was the focal point, and has value of course, but it's simply not true that he is the sole reason apple made successful products. The same is true for XP, OSX, your house etc. and in no way is 90% of your house put together by leeches where 10% are carrying their dead weight. That's the kind of unrealistic picture of society you seem to have.
RIM. Nokia. Motorola. Industry leaders, employing thousands of people, until one day a non-leech company came along and reduced them to scrap.

"Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. But they have no respect for status quo. You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them, disbelieve them, glorify or vivify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things." (Apple)

Machinesworking
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: I Don't understand the Issues with Obamacare

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:15 pm

Galt wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:No problem reading your ideas, but you seem to completely ignore that I've said over and over again that the majority of people do their jobs well, while you harp on about how only a select few are capable of making your sandwich correctly or any other job. You seem to think there are a select few who carry the rest which is entirely backwards, there are hundreds who carry the select few. iOS wasn't designed by Jobs, he was the focal point, and has value of course, but it's simply not true that he is the sole reason apple made successful products. The same is true for XP, OSX, your house etc. and in no way is 90% of your house put together by leeches where 10% are carrying their dead weight. That's the kind of unrealistic picture of society you seem to have.
RIM. Nokia. Motorola. Industry leaders, employing thousands of people, until one day a non-leech company came along and reduced them to scrap.

"Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. But they have no respect for status quo. You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them, disbelieve them, glorify or vivify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things." (Apple)
Again, the thinking here is silly. Motorola etc. aren't immediately deemed 'leaches' (which is what you're implying) by the emergence of a company competing in their market with a better idea. A leech company to me would be Enron, where the product itself wasn't just outdated, it simply didn't exist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOLNWF5QMxY

Post Reply