Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:55 pm

Machinesworking wrote: Your starting point on your site for theory is based on the A minor scale.
All the white notes form the scale A minor. This is our starting point for all the major and natural minor scales.
A minor scale is simply not what contemporary theory is based on. I mean you literally start people down the wrong path from the get go.
I'm not having a go at you, I'm a total noob at theory yet I know that the starting point for beginners is and always will be the C Major scale. The Major scale is what beginning music theory tutorials are based on, and to suggest otherwise will cause problems later on down the road. For the simplest explanation as to why this is true, when learning other scales the Major scale is mostly always the reference. We went over all the basics before even approaching Minor scales in the class I'm taking. This also applied in school when learning theory as a kid, the C major scale was the starting point.
And what do you know? JumpingJackFlash actually pointed out the same thing in your KVR thread funken!

I also see that jancivil indeed had a go at you. :mrgreen:
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stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:59 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
stringtapper wrote:Might sound cool, but essentially changes the "tonal" center in the bass line from A to F# while the upper part is still centered on A. Regardless of whether they share a key signature, the parts will be orbiting around two different central tones.

And for the record, as gjm hinted, this would not be transposition. Transposition is when the intervallic content of a pitch collection, melody, or chord progression remains the same while the pitches themselves are shifted by some interval. What adonis wants is a modal shift. To change from a minor mode to its parallel major mode.
Have you any idea how pretentious and unhelpful this sounds to a beginner?
Pretentious and unhelpful? Are you kidding?! These aren't opinions you're quoting here. I'm just stating musical facts!

Should I have written it in slang or something…??

:?: :? :?:
Last edited by stringtapper on Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:04 pm

I got the thread. You don't have to post it here.
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stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:06 pm

A response very similar to my own from jancivil at KVR:
jancivil wrote:
kennyda wrote:
JumpingJackFlash wrote:
These [F and B] are not the least important notes in C major, in fact, they are among the most important.
if they are among the most important notes of the C major, why are they not included in the pentatonic? They are played less often than the other notes are they not? It's true B is important as the leading tone, but that's a bit advanced for where I was up to. How should I explain it differently?
played less often in what music?

'major scale' denotes a heptatonic set. pentatonic is not necessarily a subset of that or leaving two notes out of seven. In the history of the world, the pentatonic musics happened first.

the convention of 'C major scale', to JJF, to many many people, is wrapped up w. harmonic language. The two notes you blithely leave out are crux points in the functionality of that harmonic language.

generally pentatonic musics, to this day, are not wrapped up in harmony, nor this convention. there ought to be no confounding of these two things.


It's no good to go about instructing people from this kind of basis; we are dealing with truly basic stuff; yet it's 'a bit advanced' for you? You're only going to muddy waters for people. You should not go to "explain it" until you know it.

Do continue asking questions of knowledgable people as a humble beginner.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=357192
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stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:08 pm

jancivil wrote:
kennyda wrote: it is a way to make a tune on day 1.
jancivil wrote:Don't be in such a hurry.
I concur.
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stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:11 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
stringtapper wrote:I explained why I used the term "central tone" in place of tonic. It was precisely to avoid terminology that others might not know. I should have just used tonic.
Tonic is a proper term. Central tone is not, or at least not a commonly used one. Guitarists invariably however use the word "root"for the scale and the chord. Can some of them still fill stadiums? Yes they can. Some of the world's top rock musicians know little more than a few scales and chords.
Uh, yeah and I recall that I'm the one who taught you what the proper term was, so please don't post to me "tonic is a proper term" when you know well that you had no idea what it meant before you read it in one of my posts.

"Central tone" is purely descriptive and is absolutely accurate in that regard. Such terms have been used in prose by countless theorists in order to explain tonal centers.
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regretfullySaid
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:17 pm

In general, it's always unnerving to see a layman ask "Are you sure?" to the expert who just schooled him.
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stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:24 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:My method will make it possible for complete noobs to start making music immediately. Nobody else teaches this method because I invented it. Now, you can continue to slag it off, for no justifiable reason, or not. Who do you think has the moral highground, really, here? Honestly? Just between you and me? Someone who makes it accessible? Or not?
Aha. I don't know why I couldn't see it before.

This really does come down to politics for you because in the end it's accessibility that is most important to you. Quality of content and instruction are ancillary to you. It's the point of making it available for all the supersedes expertise for you.

Well sir, you are contributing to the dumbing down of an art form that I hold in the highest regard. You may not agree that you are or even understand how you're doing it but this is what I have to say about it:

I will fight you… because it's my job.
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stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:25 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:I said Strapper made a mistake, which he did, which was avoidable if he bothered to read the ACTUAL FUCKING TUTORIAL BEFORE SLAGGING IT OFF.
I made no mistake. Your tutorials are still contributing to the dumbing down of music as an art and craft.

End of.
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stringtapper
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:28 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
stringtapper wrote:
"Central tone" is purely descriptive and is absolutely accurate in that regard. Such terms have been used in prose by countless theorists in order to explain tonal centers.
Yes, very nice. Tell me, is your music any good? I'm fucking bored with this shit. Post me some tunes.
Right, you can't handle it, I get it.

Most of what I do involves live performance. Come to Texas and you can hear.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:28 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
Your starting point on your site for theory is based on the A minor scale.
All the white notes form the scale A minor. This is our starting point for all the major and natural minor scales.
A minor scale is simply not what contemporary theory is based on. I mean you literally start people down the wrong path from the get go.
This was discussed on the KVR thread by JJF as you can see. But all he said was "Generally though, not bad. Was there a reason why you started with the minor scale instead of the easier Major?"

I said I did because most dance music is done in minor scales.

My tutorial is not designed to replace proper theory for people who want it. That is why I have links at the bottom. Mine is a method I invented which makes it simple for complete beginners to start playing melodies and chord progressions within a few minutes, using no templates, racks, memory of stuff, nothing to learn or buy, just a simple method in Ableton Live.

My method will make it possible for complete noobs to start making music immediately. Nobody else teaches this method because I invented it. Now, you can continue to slag it off, for no justifiable reason, or not. Who do you think has the moral highground, really, here? Honestly? Just between you and me? Someone who makes it accessible? Or not?
Christ? really? That's your response? "I invented it." 8O

All you wold have to do to correct yourself is to quickly go over the Major scales and why they're important. But nope, instead people who read your tutorials as a starting point will have to relearn things when they want to go further. And why? because you can't be wrong. I'm sorry, you simply don't have the moral high ground with that sort of non logic.


regretfullySaid
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Re: Important: Changes to Community Guidelines

Post by regretfullySaid » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:47 am

Funk N. Furter wrote:
shadx312 wrote:In general, it's always unnerving to see a layman ask "Are you sure?" to the expert who just schooled him.
Why, do you think experts never make mistakes?
Sure they do, but there's less chance of an expert making a mistake on basic theory compared to intermediate theory.

It's like:

Someone who knows addition but barely knows multiplication: Ok kids, I invented a new easy way to multiply.

Calculus teacher: Actually part of it may be right but there's a lot there that is wrong and only gets worse the further you go down that path that would make it worse for your students. Know your shit first.

Someone: Are you sure?
TomViolenz wrote: No one is asking "are you sure" here though, the student is saying that he was the one schooling the teacher and that he doesn't need his help, because he is inventing new methods left 'n right ...
This has to do with previous occasions where unqualified teacher has asked more than one expert if they are sure. It's arrogant.
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