Some clarification about the rules?

[slatepipe]

Hi guys,

This is just to chime in and say that we do read the forum - in fact, a few of us do, - however, we do not have the moderator resources needed to cover general topics pertaining to politics and religion. Please keep in mind that The Lounge is something of an experiment that we ran and not the main part of the forum. We also feel that these topics are outside of the scope of interest for the greater community of the Ableton forum, which is what the Community Guidelines state, in a nutshell. In addtion to that, there are other places on the web such as Reddit which are far more suitable to discuss topics like these.

Hope this clarifies things a bit!

Stas

there are lots of topics on this forum that are outside my scope of interest. guess what? - i don't read them.

[Forge.]

it feels similar to when you were at school and if one or two kids in class fucked about then the whole class got punished.
(

yeah, this.

This forum managed for a whole decade having some of the most interesting conversations anywhere, then very relatively recently 3 people went out of their way to push it as far as they could and fucked it for everyone else.

[TomViolenz]

it feels similar to when you were at school and if one or two kids in class fucked about then the whole class got punished.
(

yeah, this.

This forum managed for a whole decade having some of the most interesting conversations anywhere, then very relatively recently 3 people went out of their way to push it as far as they could and fucked it for everyone else.

It's worse, in the school example, this was supposed to result in community pressure, so that it didn't happen again.
We are neither able to pressure anyone to do anything, nor are we given the chance to show, that with these 3 people gone, the problem is gone as well...

And I think the solution I gave above would have been the obvious one, but it was not taken, because they don't really care and think of all of us as misbehaving children!

[oblique strategies]

however, we do not have the moderator resources needed to cover general topics pertaining to politics and religion.

Please don't waste time & company resources on trying to stick fingers in the holes in the dam. It's pointless.

I think we'd all agree that we'd rather you spent valuable time & resources on making Ableton Live the best music making experience it can be.

The forum will sort itself out.

there are lots of topics on this forum that are outside my scope of interest. guess what? - i don't read them.

Exactly.

[re:dream]

KVR have an interesting approach.

They have two different 'Off topic' forums. A loungey one where you are spozed to play nice, and an explicitly political one reserved for rants and contentious topics.

I don't know how well it works, but it seems to be a sensible way of going about it.

[[stm]]

So what constitutes religion and politics?
This is the main point of uncertainty we face.
How can we have a decent discussion in the Lounge (Per definition a place for those of the community, that choose to, to hang out and have general discussions and light bannter), if we have to be constantly afraid of saying something, that my be considered political by someone? Someone, who btw, never comments on what exactly it was that woke his/her ire.

This situation let's all of us just hang high and dry, and will completely dry out the Lounge, making your experiment, a failed one!

The term "politics and religion" is certainly somewhat blurry at its edges. Hardly any general notions in our language have mathematically precise definitions as I'm sure you'll all agree. However, in most cases but the most borderline ones, it is easy to tell the difference - and discussions on political and religious topics have shown to be potentially very heated and emotional in the past. That's understandable because opinions on these topics are often of high importance to the people that hold them, but it's not the point of this forum. We would need to put in amounts of work to moderate these threads that we simply couldn't justify, seeing as it's our priority to work on improving Live and Push.

That said, in the borderline cases I mentioned, there will unavoidably be a certain amount of subjectivity in moderating, sure. We'll try to point out the reason for deleting or locking threads more explicitly in the future, except in self-explanatory cases.

[H20nly]

Too bad about this...

The truth is the forum won't sort itself out because there are vindictive twats using it. Anyone here have someone try and reset your soundcloud password 40 times in a row?

Even if you haven't... Think about this for a moment, somebody out there is so lame and so pathetic that they go through the motions to reset our passwords so we get a bunch of emails. it probably takes this tortured soul longer and more effort to do it then deleting them does. Why does he do it? Bent outta shape on the Ableton forum.

It's like some snotty wanker not getting along and being as popular as they'd like so they leave the party and go flatten everyone's tires. That'll show them yeah, show them your completely broken heart

I've never seen so much who dun it talk of who should be talked to by authorities and finger pointing as in the last six months of this forum... It was like an Agatha Christie novel.

Don't blame Ableton, blame the thinned skinned whining pussies who complained to them over and over and over again. That's why you are now censored and silenced and treated like the sheep you think you loathe by a mostly silent police force who make people and events disappear in the night.

Get used to it... It's just a smaller version of what will happen in the world... and has happened in the world. The people must be silenced. The people must be controlled.

[TomViolenz]

Too bad about this...

The truth is the forum won't sort itself out because there are vindictive twats using it. Anyone here have someone try and reset your soundcloud password 40 times in a row?

Even if you haven't... Think about this for a moment, somebody out there is so lame and so pathetic that they go through the motions to reset our passwords so we get a bunch of emails. it probably takes this tortured soul longer and more effort to do it then deleting them does. Why does he do it? Bent outta shape on the Ableton forum.

It's like some snotty wanker not getting along and being as popular as they'd like so they leave the party and go flatten everyone's tires. That'll show them yeah, show them your completely broken heart

I've never seen so much who dun it talk of who should be talked to by authorities and finger pointing as in the last six months of this forum... It was like an Agatha Christie novel.

Don't blame Ableton, blame the thinned skinned whining pussies who complained to them over and over and over again. That's why you are now censored and silenced and treated like the sheep you think you loathe by a mostly silent police force who make people and events disappear in the night.

Get used to it... It's just a smaller version of what will happen in the world... and has happened in the world. The people must be silenced. The people must be controlled.

Your post is getting awefully political, beware...

[stringtapper]

The forum changed because a few people who don't know how to interact with people without being rude or insulting.

Ok, no I'm pretty sure Galt and all of his incarnations knew better and was deliberately fucking with people.

In the other two cases I truly believe there was mental illness involved. Some forms of autism most likely.

When you act like a dick and then stand back and say "What I didn't do anything!" like a kid on a playground then you're either taking the piss or there's something genuinely wrong with you.

And as much as I hate participating in political or religious threads I don't mind reading what some people around here have to say and I do think the place has gotten a little bland.

But it was pretty entertaining for a while there!

[oblique strategies]

discussions on political and religious topics have shown to be potentially very heated and emotional in the past.

I have to ask: so what? Who cares? Honestly, no one is being forced to read anything posted on these forums. Those people can't simply read something else? I don't read what I'm not interested in.

And I am not defending asinine behavior, far from it. But people can get asinine over a far wider range of topics than politics & religion. Banning topics won't necessarily get the results you want, but banning people will. And where will this banning end?

That's understandable because opinions on these topics are often of high importance to the people that hold them, but it's not the point of this forum. We would need to put in amounts of work to moderate these threads that we simply couldn't justify, seeing as it's our priority to work on improving Live and Push.

I understand what you're saying, but why spend any resources on moderation at all? And the point of the forum as defined by Ableton is "Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production" Politics & religion qualifies under Ableton's own definition.

I remain hopeful that something more productive than censorship can be implemented.

Lastly, thank you Stas for weighing in, it is really appreciated to hear the official word (even if I don't agree with it!)

[H20nly]

Lastly, thank you Stas for weighing in, it is really appreciated to hear the official word (even if I don't agree with it!)

+1

[re:dream]

Too bad about this...

The truth is the forum won't sort itself out because there are vindictive twats using it. Anyone here have someone try and reset your soundcloud password 40 times in a row?

You're making me paranoid now. You are saying that was the likes of Myr?

[Forge.]

Too bad about this...

The truth is the forum won't sort itself out because there are vindictive twats using it. Anyone here have someone try and reset your soundcloud password 40 times in a row?

You're making me paranoid now. You are saying that was the likes of Myr?

I think that was more likely "CPEREZZ", whoever that is.

[Forge.]

discussions on political and religious topics have shown to be potentially very heated and emotional in the past.

I have to ask: so what? Who cares? Honestly, no one is being forced to read anything posted on these forums. Those people can't simply read something else? I don't read what I'm not interested in.

This was on the Simpsons I watched last night - Ned Flanders was writing emails to "online Christian soldiers" to get Kent Brockman fired for accidentally swearing on TV:

Rod Flanders: What are you doing, daddy?
Ned Flanders: Imploring some people I never met to pressure a government with better things to do to punish an innocent man for doing something that nobody saw. That's what I'm doing!
Rod Flanders: Daddy, we think you need a new mommy.

[Forge.]

Hi guys,

This is just to chime in and say that we do read the forum - in fact, a few of us do, - however, we do not have the moderator resources needed to cover general topics pertaining to politics and religion. Please keep in mind that The Lounge is something of an experiment that we ran and not the main part of the forum. We also feel that these topics are outside of the scope of interest for the greater community of the Ableton forum, which is what the Community Guidelines state, in a nutshell. In addtion to that, there are other places on the web such as Reddit which are far more suitable to discuss topics like these.

Hope this clarifies things a bit!

Stas

Stas, thanks for taking the time to reply, but there is another dimension to all this.

I've spent more than 10 years coming to this forum purely for the quality of conversation, mainly owing to the fact that the people who come here are musicians with common interests and I've found that Ableton has since its inception attracted really cool people. Granted, it's dropped off a little over the years as the program's got more popular, and the signal to noise ratio has changed, and the fact that it's been reasonably unmoderated has lead to some people abusing this and pushing it too far.

But if 3 people can totally bring to an end a tradition spanning over 10 years that has existed on this forum of free, vibrant and interesting speech, then it is really very sad.